I was in school being bored when this question poped in my head
Is Geostigma the same diseses that the cetra got from Jenova when it origanly came to the planet in the movie you find about it in icical it says they got dillustional seeing there dead kind and turned into monsters

Do you think its the same disesies :unsure:

Well, it could be. Though I can't remember correctly on what killed the Cetras. But if Geostigma is the same like Jenova's, then wouldn't Cloud be immune to it? I mean, to me, I think its something different and stronger that Jenova...must be why Cloud contracted it himself. Or maybe those who have been purge by Jenova only get infected? Or it could just be that Jenova has develop a better kind of disease..or something? Okay, now my head hurt from too much thinking... :lol:

To begin with I'm going to quote few things from the cript of FFVII that might explain something, or at least create new questions if nothing else. I also believe that we have discussed about something like this before, but I have no memory of where exactly...oh well. ^_^

In Sephiroths words:

"Long ago, disaster struck this planet."

(He looks up and walks to another spot, facing the wall.)

Sephiroth
"Your ancestors escaped... They survived because they hid."
"The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your
ancestors continued to increase."


And more importantly what Ifalna said:

"That's when the one who injured the Planet... or the 'crisis
from the sky', as we call him, came."

(She covers her face with her hands.)

"He first approached as a friend, deceived them, and
finally...... gave them the virus."

(She looks up again.)

"The Cetra were attacked by the virus and went mad...
transforming into monsters."

(She sinks to the floor. The scientist runs over to her)

"Then, just as he had at the Knowlespole."
"He approached other Cetra clans...... infecting them with...
the virus..." "


While Sephy wasn't as informative as Ifalna, he was no fool and understood and knew very much. He just had hard time expressing himself in ways that others might have understood, especially poor Cloud who was always confused by him. :D

But Ifalna said the most interesting things and judging from what she said it very much looks like Geostigma was indeed what eventually killed the Cetra in a very unpleasant way it seems.

EDIT: Oops, and I completely forgot to say that this really has nothing to do with the Love Triangle, so I will move this to another section that might be better for this. :)

Actually, I doubt very much that it's the same disease, primarily because humans couldn't catch the disease that Jenova gave to the Cetra. As Sephiroth said to Cloud during the Kalm flashback:

Sephiroth "Your ancestors escaped... They survived because they hid." "The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase."

The Cetra who survived had turned human, and the human population increased. Humans didn't catch the disease that Jenova gave to the Cetra. Only the Cetra caught the disease.

Those who have Geostigma in AC are human, not Cetra. Therefore, it can't be the same disease.

Perhaps so, but I have to admit that I would find it bit odd if the disease that turned the Cetra into monsters (perhaps not literally, but at least in some sense according to Ifalna), would not be in any way connected to Geostigma that is now tormenting the survivors.

But where do you draw that conclusion from? Was it once again mentioned somewhere and I have just missed it, happens quite often actually...
But I really do not recall anything like that.
Hmm, or perhaps my english skills are hiding something from me that you can see, that is also a possibility. I might be misunderstanding something which also happens bit too often. :rolleyes:

Maybe what janova did was just get more stronger like aerithstrife said:

I bet from all the tapping into the mako energy janova found away to get worse and then attack the humans....or maybe people who have been exposed to mako evergy can contract the desise.

That was said in Cloud's recollection of Sephiroth's speech to him in the Nibelheim basement:

Sephiroth "This Planet originally belonged to the Cetra. Cetra was a itinerant race. They would migrate in, settle the Planet, then move on..." "At the end of their harsh, hard journey, they would find the Promised Land and supreme happiness."
(He turns to Cloud.)
Sephiroth "But, those that disliked the journey appeared. Those who stopped their migrations built shelters and elected to lead an easier life." "They took that which the Cetra and the planet had made without giving one whit in return!"
(He looks down.)
Sephiroth "Those are your ancestors."
Cloud "Sephiroth..."
Sephiroth "Long ago, disaster struck this planet."
(He looks up and walks to another spot, facing the wall.)
Sephiroth "Your ancestors escaped... They survived because they hid." "The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase."

The Cetra who settled down and quit searching for the Promised Land were Cloud's ancestors, who were human. Some of the Cetra "de-evolved" into the human race, or else they abandoned the traditions of the Cetra to become human. Either way, the ancestors of the human race were at one time Cetra.... and humans didn't catch the disease.

Well, it might be. If the humans are the Cetra who decided to settle down, I would say that the only thing that the Cetra and the actual humans differ in, is in spirit. I think that what was de-evolved in humans was spirit, and when this happened, they weren't able to talk to the Planet, and started thinking more greedy. But phisically I think that the humans and the Cetra are the same, so it is probable that Geostigma is the same disease that destroyed the Cetra.

Okay, then... let's look at this from another angle. The humans that have Geostigma are the humans who have Jenova cells in them. We know the children have Jenova cells in them because Kadaj wants them for the Reunion. Cloud also has Jenova cells in him. We don't actually know that the WCM has Geostigma, since it's never been stated that he does.

The Cetra who caught the disease from Jenova didn't have Jenova cells in them. Sorry - it's a different disease.

well in the icical video Ifilna says it comes with a viris . Jenova could have infected them with her cells and it could have been Geostigma it also states that it went around spreading it to other clans so mabey :unsure:

But see... Jenova is still the primary factor in both cases. She was the source of the disease for the Cetra... and she's the source of the disease now. It just seems like too much of a coincidence. As for why normal humans didn't get infected then, but are getting infected now: perhaps Jenova picks and chooses whom she victimizes? She had a reason to "infect" the Cetra when she first came - they posed a threat to her, while regular humans (or weak Cetra) did not. Now, perhaps, certain groups of humans (such as the children) are now in possession of Cetra-like powers (the children's eyes are glowing in a scene from the trailors, or the Geostigma-victims have some other sort of circumstance in common that make then a "threat" to Jenova in some way... Or maybe she's just vindictive, lol.

Also, do we know for sure that the Cetra that were "infected" didn't have Jenova cells in them? I don't think the game clarified exactly how Jenova infected them... Though I believe Ifalna implied that Jenova got "close" to them...

Obviously this is all conjecture, but I'd say that we cannot for sure completely discount the relationship between Geostigma and the disease that decimated the Cetra at this point...

Related thought: we don't really know what ultimately happened to the "corrupted" Cetra after they were infected... they were turned into "monsters"... but then what?

This was a very good question, Eyes - very sharp!

But a virus is contagious - Geostigma is not. If Geostigma was contagious, then the children would have to be isolated. Why are they letting Marlene go into Denzel's room if it's contagious? Why does Cloud take Marlene back to Midgar if it's contagious? Why are the orphans hanging out on the streets of Midgar if it's contagious?

And how would Jenova give Jenova cells to the Cetra?

Maybe the genetic make-up of the Cetra is the same as JENOVA's.
Geostigma as a virus... not all viruses can infect all sorts of organisms, some viruses can only harm a certain group of people. In the case of Geostigma, I think it can only infect those with JENOVA cells in them or those who had been exposed to Mako.

Well, I can not argue with Aly's reasoning and facts. She's so smart! *envies Aly's wisdom and wits* :wub:

I need to start paying more attention to details. I see the big picture but I miss the little facts that are as important. I'm going to leave the reasoning and debating to the rest of you. :rolleyes:

Yeah but Anastar.....there are virus that are not catchable like cancer and Asthma. Then like Buhon said, the humans did nopt pose a "threat". When Cloud and the gang defeted her and her "son" she probably thought to kill all huamns and perfected her desise which killed off the Cetra.

Well, there are many different types of viruses and they transmit through different mechanisms. For example, HIV virus transmitt throught close physical contact like blood transfusion, sexual intercourse but dengue virus transmit through a vector- mosquito, and SARS virus transmit through air droplets.
So Geostigma, even if it is a virus, may not be highly contagious like SARS, that you get infected by just breathing in droplets from infected patients. If Geostigma was the virus that infected the Cetra thousands (?) of years ago, it could possibly be transmitted through a vector - and the vector is the jenova cell.

But some of the Cetra confined Jenova to a geological stratum.

Ifalna "A small number of the surviving Cetra defeated Jenova, and confined it."

So those who were the greatest threat to Jenova - those who were able to confine her - survived. If Jenova was concerned about those who were a "threat", then why didn't she go after the ones who survived?

The Cetra who confined Jenova to the geological stratum would have to get close to her, too. So would the scientists who put Jenova in that cage. Sephiroth carried Jenova's head by the hair. Kadaj opened the box that he thought Jenova's head was in. IF Jenova cells could be transmitted from an "infected" source to an uninfected victim, then Cloud's party should all be infected with Jenova cells and have the disease.

Then the Jenova Project should have worked. The original intent of the Jenova Project was to recreate the Cetra.

Sephiroth "The Jenova Project wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients..... no, the Cetra."

It can't infect those who've just been exposed to Mako, or Tifa would have it along with all the residents of Mideel who were exposed to the Lifestream.

Then why do only Cloud, the Orphans, and (maybe) the WCM have it? Another question that's been raised is why the SHM don't have it, even though they have Jenova cells. The only difference I can see between Cloud and the orphans vs. the SHM is that the SHM have a strong will as Sephiroth clones, whereas the orphans and Cloud don't. That may indicate that only those who have Jenova cells and a weak will are able to get the disease.

We also have to remember that Marlene says this during her narration at the introduction of the film festival:

Marlene "But it seems the Planet… is a lot, LOT madder at us than we first thought."

That indicates to me that Geostigma comes from the Planet rather than Jenova. The Planet fights Jenova. The Planet even created Weapons to destroy Jenova. Perhaps the Planet is trying to get rid of anyone who carries Jenova cells? :unsure:

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EDIT: I didn't respond to the "contagious" issue. :lol: What I was trying to say is that Geostigma doesn't appear to be contagious in the same way that the original virus given to the Cetra was. Since they are contracted differently, that would indicate that they are different diseases.

Interesting thought. :rolleyes:

See to have Geostigma you have to have Jenova cells so even if the planet gave Geostigma right now why wouldednt it do the same for the Cetra

See we dont know what happened to the Cetra that sealed Jenova. they could have been infected after words. And for the Strongest Cetra that sealed her
Iflina states that it went from TRibe to Tribe the ones who sealded her could have been in the last Tribe

I'm not sure what your point is, because the Cetra aren't around for the Planet to give Geostigma to. Even if the Cetra were around and got Geostigma now, that wouldn't mean that it's the same virus they had before.

It's most probable that the Cetra who sealed Jenova into the geological stratum survived the virus, because the Cetra didn't actually die out for another 2000 years. When Ifalna starts her story about what Jenova did to the Cetra, she says this:

Ifalna "2000 years ago, our ancestors, the Cetra, heard the cries of the Planet." "The first ones to discover the Planet's wound were the Cetra at the Knowlespole."

Jenova appeared shortly after that, so what Jenova did to the Cetra happened about 2000 years ago. The life expectancy of a Cetra is less than 120 years. We know that from what Hojo said to Pres. Shinra about conducting research on Aerith:

President Shinra "How long will the research take?"
Hojo "Probably 120 years. It's probably impossible to finish in our lifetime. Or in the lifetime of the specimen too, for that matter."

So at least a small group or tribe of the Cetra had to survive the virus in order for Ifalna and Aerith to be alive 2000 years later.

I think there are a lot of variables that we just don't know enough about... or at all... for us to be able to effectively say whether or not the "illness" that did the Cetra in was the same, or similar, or different from the "illness" that's killing certain humans now.

---Viruses are all contageous, but not at the same level. If HIV was as contageous as the Common Cold, we'd all have AIDS now. So, just as a kid with AIDS can wander around the neighborhood and not necessarily infect everyone that comes near him/her, so might a kid with Geostigma do the same and have it not necessarily completely ruled out as involving a contagion (just don't come into contact with any bodily fluids!).

---We know that Jenova is the common factor for both, but we don't know how exactly those currently infected with Geostigma came into contact with Jenova cells (well, except for Cloud... we KNOW how that happened...), nor do we know exactly HOW Jenova transferred a "virus" amongst the Cetra.

---We don't know if Jenova has the power to be selective about who she "infects" or not (assuming that she is the infectious agent, of course --- come to think of it, we don't know anything about what Jenova is fully capable in general).

specifically in regards to Geostigma

---We don't know if those who currently have Geostigma (Cloud, the children, the WCM, etc.) are the ONLY ones who have it, nor do we know if they're the only ones capable of getting. Could others be in the process of getting it, or in the earlier stages of it? We just don't know...

---We know that Jenova cells and the Lifestream are involved, but we don't know if there's more to it or not...

specifically in regards to the virus (Cetritis??? :rolleyes:)

---We don't know exactly HOW Jenova passed the virus to the Cetra... simply by being in close contact? by coming into contact with it? by having Jenova whip up a cocktail at a Cetra party and drop a vial of something foul in it? :lol:

---We don't really know what the diseases sympotms were... just that it was one and that if eventually turned the Cetra into "monsters."

---We don't know if the group of survivors that finally sealed Jenova in the geological stratum themselves weren't infected, and didn't later succumb themselves. The "ultimate" survivors (ancestors of Ifalna and Aerith) may not have been the same group.

Personally, I don't think Geostigma and the Cetra virus are related... but who knows. We shall see...

Those are all very good points, Buhon. :rolleyes:

OMGLOLSTFUGEOSTIG1MAISANSTDLOLOMGSTFUOMG!!1!! :lol:

True that we don't know how the virus was passed on to the Cetra, nor do we know what the symptoms were except that they turned into monsters. (BTW, does that mean they turned into monsters physically or mentally? :unsure:) However, we don't see the victims of Geostigma turning into monsters. We also know the symptoms of Geostigma from an interview with Nomura:

Geostigma is unlike Mako poisoning because it's an illness that breaks out from inside the body. People affected by Geostigma experience pain and may fall unconscious, depending on the severity.

Nothing was said about the original virus that sounds anything like Geostigma.

True that we don't know for sure that Ifalna and Aerith's ancestors are the ones who actually sealed Jenova into the geo stratum. I've always assumed that they were, however, simply because Ifalna and Aerith both had the white materia. I know it's pure speculation, but I've always assumed that those Cetra with the strongest will were the ones able to defeat Jenova. Those with a strong will would also be the most likely to develop the white materia. Since the white materia would be passed on to the Cetra with the strongest will, I assume that Ifalna and Aerith would be the descendants of those who defeated Jenova. Yes, it's pure speculation.... just my thoughts on the subject. :rolleyes:

Very good point, and I agree... however, Nomura doesn't exactly describe what exactly happens in the advanced stages of Geostigma... and we ONLY know what the final stages of the Cetra virus were. So, I don't think we've effectively removed all doubt yet (please don't kill me, Aly!!! :lol: ). Regardless, I'm sure Square isn't going to release all the details about Geostigma until AC comes out. I'm sure there's a twist there somewhere...

Hahahaha... That's right kids, you heard it here first! When watching AC.... wear protection. :ph43r:

I would totally agree. That was my assumption when I played FF7 as well.

Aww, shucks. Thanks! *bows*


Disease Speculation Question: If the infected Cetra were literally turned into monsters... could they be the same monsters that are attacking Midgar in AC?