Title: Was Aeris Originally Meant To Die?
Description: kind of makes you think....
Aurora - April 7, 2005 01:49 AM (GMT)
I found this article at Kuponut.com ..... It kind of makes you think. I'll quote it here:
| QUOTE |
The big question everyone has why did Aeris have to die? Was she meant to stay dead? The ending of FF7 seemed a little rushed. The first time playing through, you might feel that Aeris did have to "die" the way she did on disc one, but would somehow come back maybe even as the embodiment of Holy to fight Sephiroth in the final battle. The evidence is below.
The Incomplete Game Theory:
Everyone knows about the Aeris resurrection theory. If you look at the game there is a vast amount of empirical evidence that Aeris's resurrection was originally supposed to be part of the game, perhaps if only in the original script or in early versions of the game. There is absolutely no way to resurrect her. However, under this theory, FF7 is incomplete. The evidence that can be found to support this theory is listed below.
- The presence of Aeris's ghost in her church is a very small plot point in the game. In fact, it's barely discussed by any one in the game itself. Why else would it be in the game?
- Before the final battle there is an extra ledge that no one is standing on.
- For the battle against Bizarro-Sephiroth, if you have obtained the "secret characters", Vincent and Yuffie, then when prompted to make three parties, you will notice one party can have only two characters. Each party should have three members.
- Throughout the game Cloud is in situations in which he must pick Aeris over Tifa or show that he is an uncaring or a caring guy. However, after Aeris's death, this entire point is dropped. Considering the number of decisions you are forced to make you would think it would have more bearing than who you date at the Gold Saucer.
- In the Japanese version, Aeris speaks at certain points after you use the GameShark to get her back. She has dialog in certain points in the game on Disc 2 and Disc 3 (She dies at the end of Disc 1), and this shouldn't be so if she was originally meant to be revived at some part in the game.
- Aeris's best weapon has only seven Materia holders and it can gain AP, while everyone else's best weapon has eight linked slots and gains no AP.
- Aeris's Umbrella has a higher Attack Power than her best weapon, the Princess Guard, whereas everyone else's best weapon has a higher Attack Power than all of their other weapons.
- When you get Aeris's fourth limit break she has most likely already died. If you actually do what you need to do to get it before she dies you waste vast amounts of time (taking several hours of intensional getting her Limits leveled up). The point is that if you get it before she dies, it doesn't seem like you should have her Limit Level 4 yet.
- Right before the pillar steps in the Forgotten City before Aeris dies there is doorway in the background. If you look at the patterns on the pillar, the doorway is somewhat similar but markedly different. Programmers usually don't put extra stuff like that in a game: it's a waste of time and effort. There is no way to reach the door.
- If you look at the floor before Sephiroth kills Aeris, there is a spiral staircase leading downward. If you think about the way the City is shaped it should be the reflection of the stairs above, but if you think on how the glass around Aeris is shaped, it physically couldn't be so.
- In the game manual there are FMV drawings of the characters. Every character's drawing except Aeris (she is looking at the highwind you see it where disc 1 is in) actually occurs in the game, or could realistically occur. Aeris's cannot, as she wasn't with Cloud when he first saw the Highwind on the first trip to Junon. She had already died when Barret and Tifa made their escape on the Highwind later. In the picture she also dressed in white, and the entire game she dressed in red.
- The strongest empirical evidence for this lies in a conversation Cloud has with Tifa on the bridge of the Highwind:
Tifa: I wonder what Aeris felt... when she was on that Altar... Cloud: I'm sure she wanted to give her life for the planet... Tifa: Really? I wonder? I don't think that's it at all. I think she didn't think she would die at all, but that she planned on coming back all along. She always used to talk about the "Next Time". She talked about the future more than any of us.
- - - - - Disclaimer: Once again, I need to add that Aeris cannot be resurrected. GameShark codes naturally alter gameplay depending on the code you input. GameShark is the exception. As for actual non-cheating gameplay, it is impossible. - - - - -
The Incomplete Game Theory Rebuttals:
- In the final showdown with Sephiroth, there is a party of two. People assume that there is one person missing, but you should look at it as there are two people too many. Considering that Yuffie and Vincent are both "secret characters", this would make the third party nonexistent.
- The whole reason Cloud and the others kept fighting was because they hated Sephiroth even more for killing Aeris. If Aeris was resurrected, the plot line would have become very slow and harder to develop.
- In the previous Aeris resurrection theory, one of the reasons mentioned is concerning Aeris having a level 4 limit break. First, this could just be a challenge for more serious gamers. Most people don't beat Ruby weapon, just like most people don't take the effort to get Aeris' level 4 limit break. Also, if she didn't have a level 4 limit break, people would be suspicious when they viewed her limit breaks in the menu.
- Concerning the choices you have to make about Tifa and Aeris from Cloud's point-of-view, though this aspect of the game is quickly forgotten after Aeris' death, the whole point of the questioning is to give character development. When you are forced to take the position of a character and respond to questioning, you feel closer to the characters. Therefore, the questions are not needed later on in the game, as character development slows and plot development takes a stronger hold.
- For Aeris' ultimate weapon having only seven materia slots, the creators most likely did not want to give away the fact that Aeris' end was near by giving the player her ultimate weapon that early.
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I don't think she was meant to die. HOPEFULLY she'll come back in AC, but there are some assumptions that she'll only appear in Cloud's memories in AC. Then again, they brought her back in Kingdom Hearts, and she was seen in Final Fantasy Tactics.
What do you think?
Materia Thief - April 7, 2005 02:01 AM (GMT)
I don't think she was meant to die originally, but the game took some twists and turns during development and it was decided that they would have to illustrate the theme of 'death'.
They chose the character which they thought would have the most impact on the player (and perhaps the other characters as well) and that turned out to be Aeris. ^_^
I want her to come back in AC. How do we know she's just a memory in the flower field? That's what I'm wondering. She could be more then a memory. :)
Aurora - April 7, 2005 02:27 AM (GMT)
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing too about the flower field. Could she be alive, or is it really her ghost?
Kaldea - April 7, 2005 03:00 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Aurora @ Apr 6 2005, 08:27 PM) |
| Yeah, I was thinking the same thing too about the flower field. Could she be alive, or is it really her ghost? |
Square is going to be extremely secretive about that aspect until the movie is released. I am sure they want to keep the viewers guessing until the very end. So all we have right now are theories and ideas.
Anastar - April 7, 2005 03:16 AM (GMT)
I've heard the "incomplete game" theory before, but it's false. Aerith wasn't supposed to die in the original version of the game, but that was changed. It
was intended that she die in the final version of the game, and the game was completed. One of our forum members who reads Japanese found a statement from Nomura in a volume of Game Maestro saying that Sakaguchi had felt during development that the game should show Death as well as Life. Sakaguchi left it up to the creative team which character should die. The creative team chose Aerith, since they felt her death would have the greatest impact on the player. (I just tried tracking down the thread where we discussed that quote, but I couldn't find it. I'll try to find it for you.)
The whole idea that the game is incomplete and that Aerith's resurrection was supposed to take place comes from a rumor started by Ben Lansing. He claimed to be an ex-employee of Square and used the evidence that you gave in your article to claim that the game was unfinished. Many people believed him, but he later admitted that the entire thing was a hoax. This is documented in many places on the net, such as as the following:
http://www.geocities.com/crea_shinra/wh3.htmlhttp://www.angelfire.com/rpg/WorldofFinalFantasy/FF7C.htmlhttp://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/perilith/179/gohan.htmlhttp://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff7/text/faqs/changes.txthttp://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers...20and%20FF7.htmhttp://www.blueshinra.com/~ffwiki/cgi-bin/...39;s_ConfessionUnfortunately, the game is finished. Aerith was supposed to die, and it wasn't intended that she be resurrected in the final version of the game.
Aurora - April 7, 2005 03:39 AM (GMT)
Hey, that's pretty cool though how it wasn't intended that way! It was a pretty good idea to make it some big hoax because more people became obsessed with the game that way. (I wonder if they purposely made Aeris' ghost in the church or if it was really a glitch.) Plus I think that Aeris had to die in the final version of the game in order for the story to fit... Plus it was one of the reasons it created a big cliffhanger, so they could do a sequel. ^^ :aeris:
Kaldea - April 7, 2005 08:42 AM (GMT)
I remember that whole Ben Lansing thing like it was yesterday. Oh, the chaos and confusion...
It's insane how a tiny rumor can be so blown out of proportion. Marvel at the wonders of the internet.
Seii Monogatari - April 7, 2005 09:40 AM (GMT)
I love how he had been quoted in magazines and all the Square reps were like "WTF?!" :lol: "No, we do not know who this man is and he sure as heck ain't affiliated w/us! So stop asking!! >_<" :rolleyes:
Anastar - April 7, 2005 02:18 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Aurora @ Apr 7 2005, 03:39 AM) |
| (I wonder if they purposely made Aeris' ghost in the church or if it was really a glitch.) |
According to the
FF7 Citadel, her ghost isn't a glitch. From the
FF7 Citadel:
---------------------
Are these 'ghosts' just glitches, or were they deliberately added by Square?
Kind associate nofaith investigated the intricates of FFVII PC by accessing the Debug Room. Inside the Debug Room, he discovered a few peculiar options, displayed below.
(See the pictures here:
http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_church.shtml)
If 'After Aeris's Death' is selected, the game will teleport Cloud to the Midgar Church, where you will see a polygon of Aeris tending the flowers. Should you try to leave the church, the polygon will stutter before vanishing permanently. What we can conclude from this? The 'ghost' of Aeris was deliberately added by Square.
This brings us to our next question. Why are there two versions of the 'ghost'? That, we do not know. It could be possible the PSX and PC versions of FFVII contain different ghosts. However, I have received reports from PSX owners they've seen Aeris tending the flowers, so this theory is flawed.
The only other theory is the 'ghost' appears in a position corresponding to how well you treated Aeris. If you treat her well, she may appear adjacent to the flower bed. If she is treated normally, perhaps she will only appear in the aisle. And if you treat her with contempt, perhaps she doesn't appear at all.
In conclusion, Aeris' ghost is not a glitch. It's purpose though, is unknown. Was it simply added to pull the emotional strings of the player, or did Square had something else planned? Whatever it is, the ghost is definitely no accident.
----------------------------
Later, the Citadel reported that Aerith's ghost can be seen in Disk One if you go to the Church after Tseng kidnaps her before the destruction of Sector 7. For that reason, the Citadal question whether her ghost is a glitch after all. However, most players wouldn't bother returning to the church in Disk One. For that reason, I'm not so sure that means it's a glitch.
Aerith's_Man - April 7, 2005 06:04 PM (GMT)
I think they wanted Aeris to die and they planned out everything from FF7-FF7AC. And they wanted us to wait for AC so that we can find out weather Aeris comes back or not. And personally, I think Aeris will come back.
Clerith-son - April 8, 2005 08:37 AM (GMT)
I think that she was always meant to die, but that there would be a part in the game in wich you could have revived her, just the the bunch of useless items, and misteryous hints that the games gives you. But I heard that one of the producers (not Mr. Nomura), decided that she should stay dead, there are some rumours that he decied this because in the middle of the development of the game his mother died, and that his grief was shown in the melody that you hear when Aerith dies (just in case his mother did died, that part is not a rumour). But I also have many more complex ideas of why she died, but I have to make them clear before I post them.
Rikkulicious - April 11, 2005 04:26 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Anastar @ Apr 7 2005, 02:18 PM) |
Later, the Citadel reported that Aerith's ghost can be seen in Disk One if you go to the Church after Tseng kidnaps her before the destruction of Sector 7. For that reason, the Citadal question whether her ghost is a glitch after all. However, most players wouldn't bother returning to the church in Disk One. For that reason, I'm not so sure that means it's a glitch. |
I think I'll try that out myself, just to see it for myself. ;) I think I might have a saved game near that area, or I could just start I new one, I was planning to anyhow. :P
On another note, I think Aeris originally wasn't meant to die, just as they figured the story out, it just kind of happened like that. Maybe she wasn't meant to die and they had already finished or partially finished, w/e, her script for Disc 2 and 3, so those things she says were just kept there. I have a record where I was mean to Aerith and she didn't appear, and when I was nice to her and she did appear. <.<;;
Rikkulicious - April 25, 2005 10:57 PM (GMT)
Sry for the double post, but yes, I'm far past that part in the game, forgot to tell you peoples first.... But you can see Aeris' ghost after you escape from the church and head back, and after Tseng kidnaps her. ^.^;;
Materia Thief - April 25, 2005 11:58 PM (GMT)
Huh...I think in the original design of the game, Aeris wasn't supposed to die and she was the love interest of Cloud. Then, they decided to include the theme of Life AND Death, so they decide to have her die. They might've had some thoughts about her being ressurected, but I doubt that they would've ever gone through with it.
However, I do also somewhat believe that she might not've supposed to die until the latter part of the game, in Sephiroth's Cave. ^_^ Of course, they changed that before final release, but it's just a theory.
It's because of this site:
http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_seen2.shtml
Clerith-son - April 26, 2005 12:29 AM (GMT)
At first the original theme of FFVII was love, then they decided to make the theme of FFVII of life and decided to kill Aerith, maybe to make the game more complex. The idea to kill her was Nomura's or Kitase's, not sure wich of both was, but indeed was one of them.
| QUOTE |
| However, I do also somewhat believe that she might not've supposed to die until the latter part of the game, in Sephiroth's Cave. happy.gif Of course, they changed that before final release, but it's just a theory. |
I think the same. I guy that I know used a program (he played FFVII in computer) to have Aerith again, and at the end of the Icicle area skateboard scene she said "I'm sick of this", and she wasn't suposed to say anything since she wasn't anymore a real playable character.
Materia Thief - April 26, 2005 12:40 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| At first the original theme of FFVII was love, then they decided to make the theme of FFVII of life and decided to kill Aerith, maybe to make the game more complex. The idea to kill her was Nomura's or Kitase's, not sure wich of both was, but indeed was one of them. |
I didn't know that about the original theme, I always thought the theme would be of life and the importance of the environment. ^_^
I think they killed Aeris to show that life involves death. There is a quote however (that Cloti's do seem to like very much) saying that Nomura decided to "kill her off".
Also, while it probably has no relevance whatsoever, my English Lit. teacher recently gave me a paper on the symbolism of 'Nightingales' and according to it, "In romantic stories and poetry there is often an association between love and death." :lol: The moment I read that I thought Cleris! :cleris:
Clerith-son - April 26, 2005 03:04 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Materia Thief @ Apr 26 2005, 12:40 AM) |
I didn't know that about the original theme, I always thought the theme would be of life and the importance of the environment. ^_^
I think they killed Aeris to show that life involves death. There is a quote however (that Cloti's do seem to like very much) saying that Nomura decided to "kill her off". |
What I said before, that FFVII's first them was of love, and then changed to life, was said by Nomura. One day Sakaguchi decided that one character had to die because death is a part of life as well (rumours said that he got to that conclusion because of his mother's death, that happened while the game was being developed).
He told them that is was up to them to choose wich character was the one who had to die, and they decided that Aerith would be, since she was the one whose death would hit players the most. That's the reason they decided to kill her, not because of whatever those Clotis might say (those guys say the first thing they hear, they are superficials, so don't pay atention to whatever they might say). She and Cloud are what the theme of the game represents, life. :cleris:
Materia Thief - April 26, 2005 03:33 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| What I said before, that FFVII's first them was of love, and then changed to life, was said by Nomura. |
I was just commenting that I've never seen wherever Nomura said that. That's all. :)
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| One day Sakaguchi decided that one character had to die because death is a part of life as well (rumours said that he got to that conclusion because of his mother's death, that happened while the game was being developed). He told them that is was up to them to choose wich character was the one who had to die, and they decided that Aerith would be, since she was the one whose death would hit players the most. |
Yep, I've known about this as well. The quote I was referencing to was the one which Cloti's like to spout about saying how, "OMG NOMURA WANTED AERIS DEAD!!! HE hATEED HERRRR!" Then insert something about Nomura wanting to be Cloud. :lmao:
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| That's the reason they decided to kill her, not because of whatever those Clotis might say (those guys say the first thing they hear, they are superficials, so don't pay atention to whatever they might say). |
:lol: Don't worry about me. I know my share of info and I've been around this fandom WAY too long to not know to tune out all the rabid Clotis. There are some Clotis who have valid points however. :)
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| She and Cloud are what the theme of the game represents, life. :cleris: |
I won't rant about this, due to time/space constraints, however, while I do agree that they (or at least Aeris) represent life. I do think it extends farther then just that. ^_^
Clerith-son - April 26, 2005 03:53 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Materia Thief) |
| laugh.gif Don't worry about me. I know my share of info and I've been around this fandom WAY too long to not know to tune out all the rabid Clotis. There are some Clotis who have valid points however. smile.gif |
Yes, sorry if I seemed not to pay attention to those. There are Clotis that has some valid points, and have to be respected.
| QUOTE (Materia Thief) |
| I won't rant about this, due to time/space constraints, however, while I do agree that they (or at least Aeris) represent life. I do think it extends farther then just that. happy.gif |
I said this, not because I'm an extremist Cleris, but because I think its true. If you study the lifes of both of them, you'll see that their lifes portray what life is, like life is not always everything about happiness, not everything you want you get, that sometimes you have to make big sacrifices, or that death is a part of life, etc... Those are some of the points in wich I base the idea that both are what life represent.
Materia Thief - April 26, 2005 03:58 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| Yes, sorry if I seemed not to pay attention to those. There are Clotis that has some valid points, and have to be respected. |
I understand completely. There are many Clotis who have valid points, however they aren't the ones you usually see shooting their mouths off in LTD. Unfortunately, most Clotis that you meet ARE rabid. :(
| QUOTE (Clerith-son) |
| I said this not because I'm an extremist Cleris, but because I think its true, if you study the lifes of both of them, you'll see that their lifes portray what life is, like life is not always everything about happiness, not everything you want you get, or that sometimes you have to make big sacrifices, etc... Those are some of the points in wich I base the idea that both are what life represent. |
No, don't get me wrong, I understand your point of view completely! I'm just saying that I believe that they represent something mroe complex then just life. The only reason I said that I'd "rant" was because that's what I do when I start getting really involved in something. ^^;;;;;
I'm just stating my opinion, that's all. I apologize if you thought I was calling you an "extremist Cleris". If there was such thing as an "extremist Cleris", I think most of use (including me!) would fit under that description. ^_^ :lol:
Clerith-son - April 26, 2005 04:21 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Materia Thief @ Apr 26 2005, 03:58 AM) |
I understand completely. There are many Clotis who have valid points, however they aren't the ones you usually see shooting their mouths off in LTD. Unfortunately, most Clotis that you meet ARE rabid. :(
|
100% agree with you.
| QUOTE (Materia Thief) |
No, don't get me wrong, I understand your point of view completely! I'm just saying that I believe that they represent something mroe complex then just life. The only reason I said that I'd "rant" was because that's what I do when I start getting really involved in something. ^^;;;;;
I'm just stating my opinion, that's all. I apologize if you thought I was calling you an "extremist Cleris". If there was such thing as an "extremist Cleris", I think most of use (including me!) would fit under that description. ^_^ :lol: |
I never said you told me, or that I thought that you thought of me as an extremist Cleris, so there's nothing for you to apologyze. :huggle: And so as you I think that Cloud & Aerith, represent something more complex than life itself, but I was just trying to keep it in context.
Anastar - April 26, 2005 09:02 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Materia Thief @ Apr 26 2005, 12:40 AM) |
| I think they killed Aeris to show that life involves death. There is a quote however (that Cloti's do seem to like very much) saying that Nomura decided to "kill her off". |
Yeah, I know the quote you mean. We discussed that quote at length in another thread. (I'll have to find it for you.)
Wilhelm found a passage from a Japanese book that had interviews with Nomura and the other creators of FFVII. Nomura said that the quote the Cloti's use all the time was a big misquote, and he was rather angry that it was used. It was not just Nomura who made the decision about Aerith's death. Nomura said that Sakaguchi had told the whole FFVII creative team that he felt death should be represented as well as life in the game. Sakaguchi left it up to the entire FFVII team who should die, and the whole team decided that Aerith should die because her death would have the most impact on the player. It was intended as a very emotional scene. The original quote that the Cloti's like to use is all wrong.
I'll try to find that thread for you. :rolleyes:
EnglishRose - June 13, 2005 03:51 PM (GMT)
I dunno if someone has already made this point, but Vincent and Yuffie are secret characters. Without them, when you fight against Sephy you would have two even groups. You dont need Yuffie and Vince, its a choice. Just a suggestion. :whistle:
Aurora - June 19, 2005 05:32 PM (GMT)
Egads, I don't know what to think anymore ^^ I guess we'll just have to wait for the movie. I just wish it woud have a solid release date, though...
EnglishRose - June 19, 2005 05:35 PM (GMT)
its no fair, becoz i dont know when its coming out in england!!!! :(
is AC coming out in the cinema first, or just dvd like spirits within?