http://eturia.bravehost.com/map.html

My idea of our city. Well Xanaroth and Meth made it, but most of it was derived from a conversation berween me and Bthizle.

Hmm, nice idea, but what are the lose pieces of wall used for inside the main wall?

Nice. Might need to be a bit bigger and have an extra layer of walls at some point but as long as we pick a spot with plenty of room to grow then we'll be ok.

What's a gyar ??
Looks more roman then barbarian.
Moving the barracks and other military buildings to the inner circle would be better and have the housing on the outer.
Do we even need a barrack at all ??
I mean we are all warriors here.
Other then that very nice.

Here:

I didn't know also.

I don't support the idea of each Guild settling within the same walls. Too many problems can arise from such an arrangement. Seperate village's should be built.

Good point al, but what if we should make seperate sections in the city for each guild? That way we can avoid many problems as we'll be out of each others production areas.

Actually I'm for seperate villages also, but I'm just bringing up a point here.

Same village !!!
I thought this was just an idea on how they would design their village and wanted to share so that we might get any ideas for our village ??

No, where not going to be in the same village :P As it is most of you guys are very opposed to that. Us Etruscans and Fulk are inhabiting one village, but you guys are just going to build a town right next to ours.

!!!!LONG POST!!!!

Well, i have been thinking about that, and i dont have an idea on how to hold 3 guild in a city, i mean, what if 2 start to quarrel?? then there is no place they can settle things and there is no place to go to cool down.

Personally i was thinking a bit like rome:P hit them with their own ideas.

The idea was to build the city on top of a mountain... So if we get 3 mountain tops close to eachother, each of them can hold a guild's city.
Then if there is a fight between 2, the 3 can be a neutral place to settle things peacefully and the distance will make sure nothing happens during the discussions.

since 3 mountain tops are hard to attack, nobody will attack us. (battling on 2 fronts are to hard in real life, so try to have 3) and if they decide to attack 1 city, the other 2 city's can send aid and attack in the rear.

If the places are selected so that there is a sort of triangle when you connect the city's with lines, the middle of them is extremely safe, thus allowing farmers/merchants to do as they please.

Also when looking at it like a triangle or some sort, a possible attack will always come from within a certain area, because you cant march an army between 2 city's without being noticed. (when it is night and they dont use torches they can, but if somebody would make a sound the echo between the mountains would still make them noticed, and 2000 footstepts + echo is somewhat easy to notice:P)
anyway, because of that the defenses of the city can concentrate on that area in front of them, since the other city's will automaticly watch the back.

Another advantage is that with 3 mountains held, the sight range to spot an enemy is increased a lot instead of using a single mountain top.

Perhaps another posibility would be to use 3 mountains with for example an heavily fortified place in the middle, and make this the ideal place for discussions. That way you avoid childish fights like "why are the meeting always in your city, we are at least as good as you blablabla" .. "from now on i want to meet in my city blablabla"

Thats my idea on how the city's could be.
I'm kinda bussy with school right now, but i'll try to make some sort of sketch to illustrate what i mean soon.

thank you for wasting your time :D

Why don't make a triangle on normal land, surrounded by some forests or hills... Mountain area is quite a harsh place to farm, don't you think?

Hmm, I think the hills idea is quite good. Its like Rome with its seven hills that started as villages but grew and became obe huge city. In time we might have the same thing occuring with the three villages growing to such an extent that they join together in the center. Forming in effect three cities inside one city.

Although I do agree with Lhorkans comment. Mountains whilst easily defensible make a hard place to work and live in. Three largish hills would be better. Quite close together so each of our walls is in bowshot of each others. Meaning that if the enemy try to go in through the center then they will be slaughtered.

Personally I think we should be so far a part that if the enemy spots one of the guilds they will not spot the rest of us thus having the element of surprise but still be close enough to provide support fast if one of the settlements are under siege.

Scouts are vital! A scout post should be located a mile or two along any major road entering our territory.

scout posts can be 'bout anywhere since a scout can easilly hide in trees.

Mountain area's are harsh to create farms yeah... but if trees can grow there, why cant farms grow their crops etc?
The really bad places to place farms are untop of a mountain or something, since that is where the stones will mainly be... but on the top the city would be so the farms will be forced down towards the better fields.
Also i heard it was wanted to be somewhere north of italy (switzerland, germany) near the rhine river or so. Now a farm near that river wouldn't have trouble to find enough water to keep the plants growing.

Tough a new possible strategic i have come up is perhaps more to your wishes.

If you are building the city's ontop of some small hills, you might want to think of some with a river going trough, seperating 1 at least 1 village from the others. That way the farms can settle betweent he city's near the river, and some bridges can connect the land.

But anyway, these are just all idea's. i'm mainly brainstorming since all we think up is of no use when we dont know what land we will be facing.

Perhaps we find a large cliff and we can create a large fortress like in LOTR II :P

Trees are no crops. Some pine trees can grow in mountain area, but only because they don't need a high temperature to grow. Crops do.

But anyway, we aren't here to discuss about farming, but about the cities. Building walls in a triangle to make a save haven between the three cities would be way to expensive, so I guess some pallisade will be enough, or simply no walls, but some outposts. The city defences itself are still the most important. Each city could build it's farms around the walls, instead of making a triangle. The most important fact will probably be that we're close enough to eachother.

Talking of defence, heres my plan for a fortification to house the town that will eventually grow up around us. It'll take a long time to construct it but the defence it will offer will be formidable and it will be a show of power and defiance to the Romans and any unfriendly tribes.

http://img143.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img143&image=untitled4xe.jpg

Nice idea Zelda, but why don't you put a gate in the main entrance also? That way we have even more time to keep them under fire.

And you should also keep in mind that traders, or when we're retreating to the city we have to do the same long distace around the city.

But still, it's a good (very expensive) idea.

True, but I though it might be a good idea to have a wide open tempting entrance that promises a nice easy assault but actually leads to lots of pain and suffering.

I take your point and have edited it, heres the revised edition.

http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=untitled1lq.jpg

uhm... i hate to be the one to tell you this :(

But lets be fair, if we build the city's up on a mountain/hill, the space needed for building will take up some, and thus the walls will be somewhat down, if not on the ground itself. If you then again put space arround that and another wall, you can be sure it will be on the regular surface.

There isn't a single enemy then from my point of vision that would walk arround. I think they would sooner aim all their catapults/trebuchets on a little piece of wall next to the gate, so they open a way into section 4.
Then they dont need to walk arround, they got less archers and soldiers to worry about (since in your tactic they wont come there so fast because they have to walk a long long way) and when they have captured it the soldiers can climb up the wall and eleminate the archers who are poor at melee combat, and place their own archers on the wall who then get to shoot freely at everybody in section 1, 2 and 3.

Or am i missing something?

srry for the double post, but i cant edit the previos one:S

the set-up is fine, but with a minor adjustment it will work out a lot better
*make a wall left of the main entrance like on its right.
*Create another gate right behind the current main gate (to keep things open)
-that way they need to storm 2 gates, and then the archers on the left and right side can fire at will since they are trapped between them:P
*make the outside wall and the first inner wall solid (no other gates)
-that way if they choose not to go trough the gate, they need to destroy 2 walls instead before entering the town... and yet again you have a massive ammount of room to store some nassty marksman :rolleyes:
*Eliminate the 4 intern walls (those arround the nr.2) so movement between the sections is not slowed down and aid can be send rapidly.
*turn the 4 corners arround the nr 2 into gates like this:
___
\ <-- gate
|

that'll make the distance between the sections limited even further (in case of evacuation or aid) and also create a nice marketplace for merchants in the middle:P
It will also help to make it easier to shut off a section in case it has been taken since there will only be 2 options: 2 ways to invade furter over the wall ( which is rather small and could easilly be held by archers if they work together with a good tactic) ofcourse the gate is also an option... but this can be disabled by the retreating army i gues..

but yet again.. i'm just brainstorming as long as we dont have a clue how it would be like in the game when its released.

The four internal walls are really there for a reason, that reason being that in effect you have four smaller fortresses inside one large one. I think I understood what you said though so heres the design alterations.

http://img205.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img205&image=untitled1sj.jpg

I've put a gap in a walls between the ections to give free flow of aid. But it does somewhat compomise the safety of each individual section.

http://img140.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img140ℑ=city5qb.png

Ehhh... This is my quick sketch of a circular settlement/fort. The wall connecting the inner and outer walls should be a little bit shorter than the outer wall so it cannot be seen until entrance. This way if an enemy assaults both entrances, one side will have to run completely around. Either way, any invading force will have to deal with 3 gateways to get to the center and will have to deal with archer platforms that are only accesible from the center. I limited the amount of towers on the outer wall because if the outer walls are overrun, then they can probably storm the towers. I actually now suggest adding another 7 towers on the outer wall for better range of sight, which I forgot to include.

Well these designs are great and everything but the only problem is they will take a huge amount of resources and time to construct. What do you guys reckon we make some possible defence designs for the early stages.

I can't see your design Eesang, the link just takes me to image shack hosting.

al, I agree that these schemes are just ideas. A gradual build up of defences will probaly occur starting with a small wooden fort with the Guild Hall. Over time it'll grow and become stronger with walls being added in.

Who knows at one point we may have the time monet and resources to creat a fortress like the one I created. It would be good. But untill we get the game we don't know how we will be able to do any of this. But its fun to fool about with designs that may become reality.

Wouldn't it be also good when there's just the outer wall, and the 4 sections walled? It is very unefficient if one needs to run around to whole town all day to go from one part to the other. It's also not so attractive for traders/buyers for our wars, since they'll stumble on 4 walled areas, and not a nice open town.

Everything has it's good and bad points... It's dificult to find the correct solution. But, there's still time :)

Edit: sorry, double post. First it said "operation timed out", but still it posted :angry: Remove please :)

Well... You can always start off with the smaller innerwall wall first, then when we get the resources build the 2nd outer wall, most of the defenses I drew were on the inner wall themselves.

Edit: Crap... I messed up the linking to my city image now... I'll repost it when I get the chance.

i made a kinda different version of zelda's but i cant upload it myself ( i dont know *** about that :P ) so if somebody could do that for me please add me on msn or so xanaroth@hotmail.com

And about starting a defense.... i think the best thing is to build a weak defense like pallisades all arround, so you know what is your "territory" and then first build the archer towers. when you have finished building your towers and pallisade, it just depends on what you want and how the game in going to continue. You could either start building a fortress of stone, start the building of your wall
or start building the outer wall (with stones or pallisades) and as last option start building the archer towers for the 2nd wall (these 2 options are ofcourse when all work together)

Yes, I think we'll build the pallisades anyway first off. Not so sure of the towers though.

personally i think they are a must. They give you a good far sight in case of an early attack. Besides of that they gives some good shelter to your archers in that same attack.
I just dont imagine the use of pallisades when you cant take advantage of them. If you dont have some towers with those, it will block your sight and leave you defenseless untill there is a way to go out and attack... and a way out is a way in.

Only pallisades in the beginning. So towers would we a waste of resources, we won't be attacked that soon normally, and even if we would be attacked, we won't have enough money to hire archers to deploy on the towers. When we have stone walls (a lot later), we'll build towers, with archers on them.

http://img236.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img236ℑ=city2ya.png

I hope that works. I overdid the towers however...

Just because you won't have the resources to build massive amounts of towers doesn't mean we shouldn't build any. Maybe you can build 4-8 towers with the pallisade, not for archers but as a perimeter lookout. Eventually we can fill those towers with archers.

In perspective I dought anyone will attack us for quite a while, at least anyone with some organized force.
Think about the RTS games you've played, do you build a defence at the start of the game or do you make resource buildings and acquire the essentials first.
Even a wooden wall would cost a fortune in the beginning, I would suggest building our village maybe with a few watch towers to begin with, we'll probably be spread out with a lumberjacks away by the forest and a mine or two where there are resources. After acquiring resources we can expand the village and maybe think about walls(which will need to be demolished later when we expand again and again).
So there are my thoughts on the matter.

I build defenses first thing after I gather the essentials, unless I'm rushing. Wc3 involves a lot of Hero harrassing.

Not necessarily. You don't need to demolish the walls, just build a second set around the front gate. If you don't want to continue linearly, just demolish a small part of a wall and build a gate (unless there's already another gate) there and expand from there.

Like so.
http://img194.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img194ℑ=expand1gt.png

Edit: Ummm... Apparently I forgot to include a legend. Just imagine the much smaller boxes as gates.

EeSang, i cant seem to open it:S every time i click on one of your links i get directed to the imageshack or so main page.

About the towers. i do really think you should be them soon. Perhaps we cant hire archers to man them, but we can shoot ourselfs as well cant we?

Of course we need to get essentials first. But if we have essentials enemy's might know it and raid the town to get it themselfs. When we are chopping wood, we might as well chop some extra tree's to make at least some weak lookouts, or a simple pallisade wall. I mean, in RTS games i always made an army a.s.a.p and then raid the enemy for their resources. There is no better thing then getting better yourself a bit and at the same time make it a little bit harder for your opponents to get started.

Do you want to spend all your time sitting on your ***, with your superiour inaccurate bow, waiting for something to come by?

Let me answer for you. No. And without archers/scouts, we don't have much on towers. They'll just catch dust :P


And EeSang, you truly should check the URL again... I wasn't able to see any of your pics. And I'm not the only one it seems :ph43r:

Eesang, if you can't find a way to do it email it to me and I'll host it on Imageshack for you.

We should all have a basic archery skill.
-Cap

I'm going to be an archer (diplomacy and such is mostly forum based and chat room based). As for the hugely in accurate bows, well, it will be much like the artillery in Rome total war(orangers); they may suck and miss all the troops in one battle, while in another they could smoke and kill your elephants and rout your army (personally experiance speaking here). Since there is not hit-point system shooting a man (while a great feat in this game) can either kill, or wound him to the point where he is easy meat for the infantry. And like in Total war, people will most likely try and avoid these unfortunate encounters.

Not a bad idea, we could have basic archery so when we attack we could fire our arrows and pray that they hit somthing, and then we the enemy is close enough we could whip out our swords (which we have mastered) and engage them. This way we can possibly get one or two of there soldiers which, especially in this game, would make difference in the out come of the battle.