Hi lads. I thought I’d introduce myself first. Some of y’all may know of me from the RV forums, most probably do not. Anyhoo, I have been granted the status of Tuatha diplomat. In future if Demson is unavailable you may contact me for official Tuatha business. Also on occasion I will be presenting official Tuatha statements such as the one that follows. It’s a bit long and wordy but I thought it only fair to give a thorough, official answer to your invitation. I hope this fully explains our position and our reasons for it. :)

Greetings, members of Brathair Prasgan. First I would like to thank you for the offer you recently extended towards us. We are grateful that you have extended to us the opportunity to join your alliance and happy that such a respected guild as yourselves see us as as potential allies. We hold your Guild in similar high regard and are enthusiastic in principle about the idea of closer relations. As two of the most respected and organised of the Barbarian Guilds in Roma Victor it only makes sense that we should be pulling in the same direction. Much as has happened before though we seem to have a difference in opinion as to how this should be realised.

To be blunt we must decline your offer. We do not see that the issues involved have changed since the last attempt was made to form a grand Barbarian Alliance, which as I’m sure you will recall, was an unmitigated disaster. With no game to play, its only achievement was to provide various more excitable members of the RV community with a platform for flaming, backstabbing and intrigue.
Considering that many guilds are still attempting to recover from the fallout of this farce, we are quite frankly a little surprised that major guilds would be so quick to attempt such a similar project so soon. As we have seen before these things lead in directions no one can predict. Directions which are invariably unpleasant and lead to strife both between, and within, guilds. The answer to this problem is of course to have any alliances based on a physical and established in – game relationship. At the very least all major guilds involved should be both fully functioning and stable. Although this situation gets closer every day, with even a cursory glance around the RV world it is obvious that no guild has yet attained this. Nor should they have. It is surely the object of any guild to be ready for when the game itself is ready. Until then everything is a learning process and has no lasting significance beyond that. It is unlikely that we will consider any concrete alliance until around the time of full release of RV.
Crucially, considering the likely distance between the two Guilds in–game, it is open to question whether an alliance will even be practical.

This notwithstanding, the success or failure of an alliance such as this rests on the details of how it will work - the “ nuts and bolts “ of the arrangement. At this stage we are chiefly concerned as I’m sure you are too, with the specific details of how our own guild will function. Until this has been worked out by the Guilds involved it is impossible to work out the details of how these Guilds can interact, and without these details an alliance is just talk. And talk is not only cheap, it is dangerous if people have nothing constructive to talk about.

Which brings me to the small misunderstanding between our two Guilds in the last couple of days. Such things are demonstrative of the unnecessary and counter productive nature of much of RV activity at the moment. It is unavoidable to a certain extent but shows how easily things can blow themselves out of proportion. Possibly it explains our attitude towards inter guild activity.
With Holymeth’s track record it is understandable I think that we would react to any perceived hostility on his part towards us and unfortunately this sort of atmosphere does not endear the prospect of alliances and such in the minds of the Tuatha membership. Although this had no bearing whatsoever on our decision in respect to the alliance, this sort of thing certainly doesn’t help.
As regards the allegations themselves, it is obvious that we clearly overreacted and will be less hasty in our judgements in future but Holymeth does have loose tongue and we would hope that he would also attempt to show some restraint.

So to sum up, we respectfully decline your offer of alliance for many of the same reasons which prompted us to avoid the last project of this kind. We feel that the RV world has not yet developed to the stage where an alliance would be anything more than an abstraction, and merely a potential source of tension and strife for everyone involved.
Most important at this stage is that we all get our own houses in order – then we can think about forging concrete links between us.
Long term, the idea of our guilds working together is only sensible and perhaps inevitable. Nevertheless we are secure enough in ourselves and have enough faith in our ability to succeed that we do not feel the compulsion to join an alliance simply because it is proposed, even if it is the initiative of an intelligent and capable guild such as yourselves.
And lets remember, it would be much easier to do such a thing in the future when the time is right, than it would be to repair any potential damage done by going too far too soon.

I hope I have made myself clear. Obviously if there is anything you feel I have not covered simply get it touch and we will be happy to clarify further although I think there is little more to be said for now.

Please do not mistake prudence for arrogance.


Highest Regards
fatboy
Tuatha de Biatach


Btw, you guys have got the best smilies! :starwars:

Ello Fatboy, you must have joined since I was banned from your guild forums.

I do not know whom told you that Brotehrhood of Nations was a alliance, for it is not .... It is just claiming peace ... and banning alliances with Roman guilds. So, to put it bluntly (:P) we never offered you an alliance, ratehr a confederacy of guilds who share some common goals.

I only know of 2 or 3 guilds who agreed to the Barbaria nUN ... and they are over it. We are talkng to Fulk (or is it just em doing it) about joining BoN.

The main failure of the Barbarian UN is that Adam was a big influence in it. Also, it was a alliance, not a confederacy.... which is much less demanding.

So, many of your guilds 'alliance' concerns are automattically abolished. Also, BoN lets one member from every guild to have full rights to veiw the other guilds private forums ... greatly preventing such backstabbing and such.

Also, since there are other guilds debating or wanting to join BoN . there will also be guilds in Northern brittania who will be in it.

Fatboy, and other Tuatha memebrs, I seriously hope my actions or those of your sources changed this outcome, those are but bumps in the road, and if you cant tolerate such bumps, then your history will be limited .... for there are many such bumps in life. Even the leastest taint of this incident shouldnt decide on admitance to BoN.

I though, and probally many other people understand your reasoning in not accepting it because RV is not out yet. I will make sure that BoN is presented to you once more.
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Not on Bon topic anymore, more of my opinions
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Also, as i mentioned on the RV forums that quite a few Britannic guilds will be RPing pretty much ... Fuilteach for one will only have war with you, for since you have even consdiered beign Merc ... they will not like you ... I said Romasn were ok ... and he was pissed as heck. Also, those in BoN may kill your members if you become merc and under hire of romans .... this isnt personal, just our purpose. For BoN is a confederacy which looks down upon Roman and Roman related guild (Mercs).

Be wary of your hirers for you may be on the other side of the field of your fellow barbarians.

Best of luck, for you will most likely need it.

Thank you for your long response Fatboy, thanks for putting it bluntly :lol:


OFFICAL:IMPORTANT: I dont want to be called Holymeth, Methius Curni is now my name. Methius Cursni....... lets make deal, If you call me Methius or such, I want call your memers juggy, demmy, moon, CF, and such. ...... ok? ;)

Alliance by m-w.

Confederacy by m-w.




To prevent misunderstandings:

Im not saying you will be Merc, I am just saying Matteo is very anti-Roman ......

If rome was dust .... and you brushed up against some .... Matteo wouldnt let you in his house. This is meant to clarify, sorry for confusion.


Eh, can one of you guys remind me when my Bann is over? i think it is ... November 16th? Am I right?

Can you keep it civil please Methius?

No need to be blunt.

Yes, you should say you're being blunt and then waffle on for another couple of pages like me. :D

Heh :rolleyes:

Anyhow I don't see what the need is for anything further on the matter. We understand what the Bon involves and I have given you as complete a lowdown as I could so you understand our reasons. Its not up for discussion - its just the way it is.
Lets leave it at that.

Fatboy, I said I would put it bluntly:

"So, to put it bluntly ( :P )"

Also, I really, REALLY Dont want to be called Holymeth. It is but a pleasent request to a group of honorable gentlemen, who will hopefully, abide and accept my request.

Not a problem. Methius it is.

Pfft dont know what Meth's problem is I love long thoughtout posts *its the politician within me ;)*. Good to see our guild can remain friends.

Regards,
NulliSecundus, Finance Minister.

As you wish. Too bad since we where hoping otherwise.

It was the members it held that did this, not the idea. Flamers can come anywhere and at anytime. By the same token guilds of Roma Victor (since there is no game to be a guild of) will fall under the same ruin. One way we have combated the 'flamers' is that, unlike Barb UN, we choose who is in and who is not.

:huh: Is that your response to our idea? That you are dissapointed that we would take on the idea of creating a coalition of guilds? As for timing... I didn't know there was a respectable time limit between such things. Zelda came up with the idea and I developed it, to something my guild agreed and liked. We believe it is a noble idea, and the structure of it well laid out. I don't see why we have to wait a cetain amount of time before we share this idea to those of a similar mind.

No one and nothing thing can achieve perfection in reality. Which means everyone is learning (or forgeting) everything. One can only play with the cards he is dealt and it is useless to wait, to bet, until he gets the 'pefect hand'. He have started this, since we want it to be, at least somewhat, in place before the release of Roma Victor. That way when it is released we have the organization completed and we can focus on other aspects of the game.

If you want to wait until Roma Victors release until you make any diplomatic stances, then so be it. BoN may offer another invitation at that time, just know that we are not that desperate to start flinging invitations when such a time does arise.

Your right, at this time such a thing would only be token. Latter on we will move on to other guilds then yours and the Nervii, some of which may be closer to your location. Besides there are other bonuses to joining then sending soldiers to defend one another or sending supplies.

Since the beginning of our guild we have set out working on how our guild will operate. We have discussed about economics (how will we tax and what will that tax be), role positions (mayor, farmers, smiths, soldiers, merchants, etc.), leadership (who will be the leaders and how many), location of our guild, attitudes towards other guilds, setup of the military and how they are to train. In short just about everything (which is why the forums are somewhat quite).

I understand if your guild still has to work out somethings, but you must have at least got the basics of what your guild will be about. Talk is cheap, and so is food, but we need both to survive (imagine if we could not talk...). As for Constructive, talking about the future and ideas for it, is a great way to form a bound between two people and two guilds.

That is too bad. It seems that you are xenophobic of our ideas. If you think there is a better way of creating this, then please tell us as we are open to suggestions.


Fatboy,

I am sorry if you see my writing as 'hostile', but I am just saying what I am seeing. Know that I still hold your guild in high regards, I am just disappointed that would not even consider our idea, or try and work out a way for it too work.

Maybe the future holds better relations; between us, until then, good luck in Roma Victor.

Sincerely,

Xenophon, Co-leader of the Brathair Prasgan.

Not at all. As you say, you're calling it like you see it.

I hope so.

Thanks for your time. :)