After several days of depression, I have now accepted the fact that Gore is not going to be president in 2008 and it is OK. The question, of course, is what do Gore supporters do now? The route I have decided to take is support Gore as the VP in 2008, preferably with Obama or Edwards. I have mentioned this possibility before, but it now seems the best alternative scenario to a Gore presidential run.

While Gore has said he is not considering serving in a future administration, this does not mean he would not consider it if asked. Here is why:

1. As a VP on the Democratic ticket, Gore can focus on the things he is concerned about right now, but get back into politics when the time comes, i.e. next August.
2. As VP, he can wield influence behind the scenes, and let the president play the typical political games with the media, etc.
3. The VP spot would make him the frontrunner in 2016, and by that time, there will be bi-partisan support on environmental issues and he will be a shoe-in for the nomination.

That's all for now. I look forward to your rejoinders.

Sorry to hear you're giving up on the Presidency run. I still think Gore's the only real person to lead the US at this time. He'll never play second fiddle to another Democrat again. He's been through that. He's more senior than any of the contenders. It would be beneath him really. I realize Cheney has more power than any Veep before him, but remember he serves "under" a puppet. As Uncle Joe Canon once said, "The office of Veep ain't worth a pitcher of warm piss." when he was offered the nomination by the convention back when conventions decided candidates. I still hope that the press won't be able to settle on one candidate, and the convention will deadlock and a movement can come from the floor. Someday we must return to the days when conventions meant something.
Where reasonable people could compromise with each other and take second choices. Edwards is the only along those lines. He does understand the read flaws in this system of unending primaries and caucuses and the power that has handed over to deep pockets in financing these eternal campaigns. The whole system needs repair. I know Gore sees that clearly. The others--who want it so badly--are willing to compromise to get power.

I like this idea IF he isn't the presidential candidate
But I won't support Edwards. The guy is slime.

Obama is the one. In all ways if Al don't run. He is our hope. He is our future.
He has been on the side of every issue Al has been on since day one.
(not since the polls told him to change like Edwards who voted for the war, who voted for the Patriot act) Edwards is a charleton who has kissed the Clinton's beehind his entire career (anyone remember the pathetic way Edwards pushed Gore out of the way at the Democratic unity dinner in 2004? With the help of BillyBoy doing that? It was about the rudest thing I ever saw in my life.
This Edwards has no respect for anyone but himself.(And if that rumor is true, he don't even respect his wife,shades of Newt Gingrich and Newt's having an affair while his wife was dying).Edwards/Newt are like the same person.

Obama/Gore or Clinton/Gore...IF Gore is not at the top of a Gore/Bloomberg unity08 ticket. That is my first choice if he isn't dem candidate

btw-"the days when the convention meant something" were smoke filled rooms when the party bosses decided everyting. Unfortunately in 2008, the bosses are the Clintons/Terry Goofy Grin McAuliffe, who are only looking after their Hillary.
Be careful what you wish for.
Those staged mega-conventions were not open and spontaneous. Just more fun
and livelier.

Last bit of real news from a convention was when goons beat up Dan Rather (in one of the more famous news clips ever).

No rational person would disagree with that part. Gore is the best but he doesn't appear to want to run in this election. We'll have to wait. He's doing so much to help America around the world right now and if he thinks this is the best way, it is the best way for him. No true Gore fan is "giving up" anything.

The greatest president of the second half of the 20th century

The honorable Lyndon Baines Johnson was 100x more experienced than JFK ever was
And he helped JFK win (without him, JFK would have lost).

And his fans said it was beneath him too

Those people were 100percent pure wrong and idiots on top of it

Being that LBJ took an office he could not on his own get, only because he was VP

If Al Gore were asked, and refused, it would show he does not care about America at all.
No one in their right mind would refuse the offer (unless it was phony as was Clinton's offer to Cuomo to be SCOTUS, which was just a show, but not real).(dangling the carrot).Take it to the bank.

Besides, nothing but VP would be important (unless being the Prez or SCOTUS)

So Ian, I like your idea 100percent.

Anything else is an insult to the American public
(And to those that think Gore owes us nothing, well, in reality, WE THE PEOPLE, have made Al Gore a 100xover Millionaire. He owes us his whole fortune, as WE THE PEOPLE went to his little film, helped make it a success, got him that first award (The OSCAR©) and everything after came from that.

So, yes, he owes us for his position today.
After all, most people who give slide show lectures make less than $30,000 and at most, are teachers...
And, of course, it is far easier to not hear a calling, when they have $100million in the bank and more coming

Also-remember who gives these awards-the same dreaded corporations that "we" on these boards rail against most of the time.
Who owns the Hollywood studios that do the voting? Guess who.
Who owns the foundations? Guess who.

But the public(us) is the ones who suppose to "own" the politicians. They are here for doing what WE THE PEOPLE elect them to...not to do what most of them usually do.

We don't owe them, we OWN them. NOT the lobbyists or corporations. WE DO.
AS WE elected them in the first place.

After last night's debate, Gore is the only choice for president. He would and could not participate in such tacky debates. It was hard to watch with all of the fussing, and gong after each other. It was no more than a cheap side show.

Never forget though, (though some of the people here would try to) that in 1988, it was none other than Al Gore himself who was the first to bring up Willie Horton situation and that was used to completely destroy Mike Dukakis (a really good guy too was Mike, same attributes as Gore, but made a fool of by the media and his campaign staff(same as Kerry's too, it was almost like the campaign staffs made sure their guys did not get elected, when you look back at it).
Although Horton's name was not used in the debate, the situation Gore (and I think Gephardt too) used was indeed Mr. Willie HOrton himself.

Gore has fought dirty in the past.

It is 1/2 commendable that he don't want to today, however, that means that he is giving up on the most viable way to get what he wants achieved

Just when I think I've heard you say the stupidest thing you could possibly say, you prove me wrong... This by far takes the prize!! :mad:
What on earth could possibly inspire you to say that Gore "does not care about America at all" - how repulsively pompous and ignorant of you!!

He is a servant of the planet, not your personal whipping boy!! He owes you nothing! If he chooses NOT to be a VP again, that is his prerogative and no one else's! Perhaps we can all decide what YOUR next job will be FOR YOU!!

He is not currently an elected politician, so you can demand nothing of him!!
All of HIS efforts to save the planet have brought him to this place, not because you paid $10 to see a movie!!! His moral conviction is his boss - not you or anyone else!

Do you honestly believe he wouldn't give up every penny to reverse the environmental damage being done, or to have every being on earth understand the consequences of our actions? It's unbelievable that you would even suggest that he has anything less than the most honorable motives for all of his actions. Clearly you misunderstand him and his goals completely!

I said it during the event that if Al Gore was watching last night's debate and could not be spurred into the race, he simply lacks a pulse. I have never been so distraught, bored and frustrated with the crop of candidates for president in my party. The most articulate, most compelling, most detailed and most tenacious person on that stage and, by far, the best candidate in my opinion is the one who has zero chance of winning, Christopher Dodd. Otherwise it was an absolute yawner. I wish, if not Gore, John Kerry was in this race. The debate was petty and rancorous. Al, your party will sink unless you plug the holes fast.

Clay Fact Check:

Al Gore never brought up Willie Horton in 1988. He did however bring up the Massachusetts Prison Furlough program in a debate which was a fair issue to discuss since Dukakis was running on his record as Governor. Gore took issue with the furlough program. He did not, however, mention Horton by name. He asked it in the form of a rhetorical question, asking Dukakis whether or not he would extend Massachusetts-style furloughs to the federal level. Dukakis' retort was, "The difference between you and me is that I have run a criminal justice system. You haven't." But Dukakis also quickly noted that the furlough program had been changed. (This can be found in Jack Germond and Jules Witcover's book on the 1988 presidential campaign, "Whose Broad Stripes And Bright Stars?", on page 315).

http://mediamatters.org/items/200502160008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200411100007

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh110102.shtml

Now when Clay smears Al Gore with right-wing talking points straight out of the mouth of Sean Hannity, is it any wonder that some people suspect that he a GOP operative trying to disrupt and divide the people on this board.

In no way would Gore be Veep. JMHO.

Totally agree. For crying out loud I've never heard anything as ridiculous about Al as the prior comments made by REAG2008. Perhaps REAG2008 should read Plato's definition of the statesman, and the proof of his commitment to reason, and what is beneficial for the good of the community that is expressed by the statesman's actual reluctance to hold political office, and be subjected to all the vagaries of average politicians (as in corruption, greed and a concern for their own electability over that of the needs of society).

I trust that Al knows what he's doing. I suspect most of us here would agree to that. After reading a couple recent posts here I no longer feel the need for that lobotomy and hold out the slim hope that Al will do this his own way.

You just blather James.

I specifically said Al didn't mention Willie Horton by name, but mentioned the situation of Willie Horton
Which led to Atwater finding out

Check your facts

Once again, I gotta laugh how you hate all the media, but then quote just those
who you think agree with you

Al Gore brought up the situaton. Dukakis ( a great man) was smeared because of Willie Horton

Next time, read.

as for that other post, if Al Gore wants to reverse things, he needs to run

Ain't noone gonna listen to him once the next administation comes in, like they would listen if he were the next administration
It's as simple as that

Look at every other cause/charity and the cause dies out after a while

And he would not have a pulpit to preach, if the people did not elect him to any of his offices.
He would just not be in the public eye

What part of Al Gore works for the people don't you get?
He was elected by us. There would be no Al Gore the leader if he didn't have people who voted for him.

What part of all these people are not Gods, not meant to be idolized, not rock stars, just public servants

(and he is making millions of dollars...in his new venture, he is giving away his salary, however, not his stock options which are worth millions and millions
He is not working for free...

That's what is wrong with the country, people don't remember they are the politicians
That is why in the old days the politicians feared the people
now the people fear the politicians, thinking the politicians are more important than they are
When it should be the other way around

No Clay I leave the blathering to you. And once again you've been caught smearing Al Gore with right wing disinformation.

Gore never mentioned the "situation of Willie Horton", he brought up the Prison Furlough program.

I have checked my facts and provided links to support them. Why don't you ever provide links for anything you claim? Maybe it's because you're getting your claims from the GOP.

Actually, the links I provided are from media watchdog groups, not the MSM. Once again you try to change the facts to support your arguements.

Gore had nothing to do with smearing of Dukakis as you are implying. He brought up the Furlough program and never mentioned Willie Horton even indirectly.

I did read and what I read was another attempt by you to smear Al Gore with discredited right wing talking points. Is it any wonder that many suspect that you are really GOP troll trying to disrupt this board?

The furlough problem was Willie HOrton
one and the same

It swiftboated the mighty Dukakis in the end, just like Kerry was

(of course, Jesse Jackson should have been the nominee that year, but that's another story).

No Willie Horton was just one of the inmate in the Furlough program. They are not one and the same. And only a GOP troll would say so.

I have no recollection of Al bringing up the furlough program in 1988, but as dirty as the GOP is and has been, that issue was fair game. William Horton (he was never known as Willie before the GOP changed his name to sound more black and evoke more anger) murdered someone on a program authorized by Michael Dukakis. That program reflected on his credentials for president, and anyone, including Al, who attackd him for that was spot on. I was fourteen years of age at the time of the 88 election and had yet to develop my current level of antipathy for the GOP, but I was sickened by the furlough program and, had I been of voting age, would likely have supprted Bush Sr. because of the Horton issue. So characterizing Al's alleged attack on Dukakis for the Horton affair was not dirty politcis but a legitimate criticism.

NOW, having said all that, I ARDENTLY disagree with anyone who thinks that Al owes us nothing. Morality and considerateness dictated a long time ago that he explicitly convey his intentions so that people could gain some semblance of closure on whether to continue their efforts for him. To let people twist in the wind is deplorable. That's not to say I do not admire him, just less than I would have had he exhibited this basic courtesy. I think too many people on this site diefy Gore. I think he is the greatest politician in the last twenty-five years, bar none. But, it's the kind of brainless, blind allegiance that got us into the current mess with the spoiled, petulent, arrogant brat currently occupying the oval office that allows people to treat Gore like he is unconditionally beyond reproach and above being criticized. He handled this election cycle in terms of his supporters' time, energy, emotions, etc with callous disregard. He was 100% wrong in his handling and cannot say that with enough conviction. I still admire the guy, though.

Morality dictates nothing...because the questions of morality lie within the realm of philosophy, and to each individual's own interpretation of it as a fundamental and biologically evolved human trait. So, I can no more agree with your claim that morality dictated that Al behave in a certain manner than I can accept your premise that he should have been more considerate.

The directions aimed at a draft campaign came unbidden from him, but was more the effort of his supporters. Would you do something for a friend and after his having ascertained that no matter how virtuous your act was, if he did not wish it for his own life, then proceed to say that your friend was ungrateful??? I think it is the same issue here. Al has said for many months that he might not be a candidate, and it is we who chose to dismiss his wishes and act on our own behalf to convince him to change his mind.

I do not fault him, nor do I fault his admirers (myself included) for expressing our earnest desire that he take the reins of government and mold it in the fashion that it now requires, and with a large percentage of the people's blessings.

You are wrong to suggest that those who support Al are mere idol worshippers...We are instead a good judge of quality. And I for one am not blinded by reason or good character.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think it's absolutely rediculous to say that Al Gore owes us anything. Those who were/are involved in drafting him, and placing his name on various ballots, did this on their own. Never did Al Gore ask anyone to do it. I will respect his final decision, whenever it is that he makes it, if we even know when he makes it. He's done a lot of good for America, both in public life and in his private life. Give him the recognition that he deserves.

:good:

You continue to skew the issue as being about whether Gore asked us to work on his behalf of not. He did not. No one disputes that. The issue is whether, when you see all of these people pouring their guts out for you; and you know it is in vain; you have an obligation to let them know. If someone is buildimg me a house that I did not ask for; and is spending his hard earned time and money on it; and I know I will never live there; I have an obligation to tell him to stop. Not doing that is rude. Period. Why cannot you see that? The fact that he did not tell us to work this hard is not the point. Period.

And quit treating criticism of him as tantamount to not giving him recognition. I have the utmost respect for him. I worked my heart out for him in 2000. I called or sent letters to his office time and again setting forth the reasons he should run. I happen to think his handling of conveying his intentions stinks to high Hell. Does that mean I am not recognizing all of his wonderful accomplishments? Hardly. You can admire someone generally and still find fault with him in a specific instance. The man is a great man but still is a man.

Damn right.

People treating him as God is ridiculous.

WE don't want a God. That is what people think Bush is.

We don't want him to thank us, just to get his lazy butt off his $$$$$milliondollar mansions chairs and fight the fight instead of saying he is in a different place now.

Well so are 4000 dead soldiers from a lie of a war. So are 100,000 injured soldiers
and how many millions worldwide dead.
They are in a different place too.

And this is a time when sitting on one's ass does not get thanks,and ten years from now when there is no more democracy, just saying shouldve couldve wouldve
won't buy you a ticket out of a concentration camp.

And there are going to be 1000s of polar bears in a different place soon too
Either dead or floating south on the last iceburg to the Hudson river

Only a President has the power to get the changes needed.

We don't want thanks, we just want that President who decided not to go into that place.

Sorry, that doesn't get thanks...Recognition? Sure, look at his mantel with all those stupid meaningless awards...

Gee, ever hear that religious thingy about the drowning man who refused the lifeboat, vest, helicopter, because he was sure God would save him, then when he reached the pearly gates, he said, God, why didn't you save me?
And God said, who do you think gave you the lifeboat,vest,helicopter to save you?

Well, all those awards were a present from God to Al Gore to get his sorry butt in the race
Seems like he read the message wrong

Seems like all those awards did was elect Hillary Rodham ClintonBush to the office of the presidency.(and she will win the nomination in 5 weeks now, and soon the general election too thanks to Al Gore not running)...
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
Happy folks??? Yeah, lets bow down to Al for not running and giving us Hillary.
Woooweeeeeeee!!!
:spikey: :spikey: :spikey: :spikey: :spikey:

For all those here who say he owes us nothing, well, we owe him the same back
now...because he has not accomplished what his father brought him up to accomplish...all the awards are for naught, if they don't bring a change, and without him, noone will change.

It is not skewing the issue. First, you assume that Gore was aware of all the activities of the draft movement. He is a busy man and other than NY Times ad & recent efforts to put him on State ballots he was most likely unaware of the efforts of the Draft movement. Anything else was probably not on his radar.
Second, what efforts has the Draft movement really taken. Sure there are message boards like this, meet-ups, letter writing campaigns and the online petition but those are very low profile activities. If Gore had tried to shut down this message board or anything else (if he was even aware of them) he would have been accused of trying to deny people of their constitutional rights.
Third, the only real effort that the Draft movement was making was trying to put his name on State ballots. An effort that once he became aware of his staff asked to be stopped.
Fourth, none of the people like EM or Wayne, who've done an overwhelming majority of the work have complained. Most of the complaints seem to be coming from people who only major contribution is to mouth off on this and other message boards.

You seem to have a pollyanna view of the world James

The regular people of the nation are the ones that get screwed daily and more so when someone like Al Gore don't run, and someone like Hillary or Bush win.

It is the regular person's life that depends on a weekly salary, whereas a multi-millionaire like a Bush or Gore himself, doesn't actually have to work the rest of their life and would live comfortably

Too many people here take it as a game, and don't see the real point of how there is a difference if just any person becomes president, or someone good.

It is not all the same.

So each person's reason is not as cut and dry as in your world.

What do people give up? It might be their life, job, freedom or future.
It's not just mouthing off.
It's real life, living or dying, and its based on this one person- Mr. Al Gore.
(not Academy Award winner Gore or VP Gore or President Gore. It's just Mr. Al Gore and for the most part, people here expected more out of him, not less.

And a higher standard then just any politician. Not that it was required, or even we should have expected...

But, 46 days to go and we are getting stuck with Hillary. Hope it makes you happy.
Hope it makes Mr. Al happy. It doesn't make some of us happy.

And you have a delusional view of the world.

You post is nothing more than the usual blather that has nothing to do with the points being discussed, which is does Gore owe us anything. But rather then discuss that in any rational way you just spew your usual BS and accuse anyone that doesn't agree with you of supporting Bush.

And frankly, I highly doubt that you care about the regular peopl of the nation or even care about what is morally and ethically right. It has become clear that all you care about is winning the arguement of the moment and shouting down anyone that doesn't agree with your warped opinions.

I am just a nobody, average person

I just don't think someone WE elect is any higher than we are.

We naively elect these people to do what we want

Which is why those who are disappointed in the non-dems the last 2 years for not doing what they were elected for are.

That is why Gore needs to be veep, if he don't want to be #1 or run #1 independent.

This is about the VP, and I have been advocating this for a long time(you would know that as you keep putting me down for advocating it).
But note- I did not start this thread- many others think #2 is better than #nothing
if he isn't #1 (and he says he will not be #1)

:mad: You spew forth such crap!

"get his lazy butt off his $$$$milliondollar mansions chairs and fight the fight..."
Are you really that ignorant?
Those awards are some long-overdue acknowledgement for all the work "his lazy butt" has been doing for 30 years!! But you want to make them all about the presidency! Of all the words that could be used to describe Al Gore, "lazy" is most definitely NOT applicable! What a ridiculous statement...again!! :bad:

WE don't treat him as a God - it seems YOU do! You seem to be laying all the blame for the world's problems (war deaths/injuries, end of democracy, polar bear deaths, etc.) squarely on Gore's shoulders, as if he directly had a hand in this mess we're in!
Wasn't he the one who brought this to the attention of the world? Someone had to step forward and be the voice of reason, and he did. But now you think he should do better?! Better than yelling it from the mountain tops for 3 decades?!?!


And, while I'm at it,... on some other tread you spewed something about Gore not taking a salary, but that he'll be making millions in stock options - not true!!
He is NOT taking stock options on this new venture and he IS donating all the salary to ACP.
You can't possibly be a real Gore supporter the way you talk about him. Clearly you don't think very highly of him, so just stop already!! I'm all for free speech, but damn already! With supporters like you, who needs opponents!!


I'm done, too much bad energy, this is not my normal MO.
Good luck with that one, James!
:Y:

If he doesn't run, he don't need supporters. For what? He is not running.
Supporters are for candidates. He don't need our support if he is not doing anything in the public as a candidate.
(He then needs to have the support of the next president, but he won't get it from Hillary, who he would then implicitly support).

As for his finances-That is wrong.(And he already is a 100x over Millionaire since he left the public sector (and if it wasn't for us voters, he would not have gotten one penny of that money...if no one heard of him, who would have bothered coming to his slide show or would Mrs. David have made a movie of a nobody?
Get real.

He is NOT taking a salary, HOWEVER the stock options are his personally.
In his pocket.

There is a difference between a minimal salary he gives back to the cause
and the millions in stock options he might make if he sells them when the opportune moment is there.

I only care about him from his politics.
If he doesn't run, then there are no politics, and his thoughts will not come to pass

He is the only one to have the power to get his policies passed as the president or vice president

No one cares about issues after an election unless they are in power.

What part of that can't you understand... I could give 2 spits about his personal life
out of politics, as his thoughts won't matter

Anyone ever hear of Nobel Prize nominee and Live Aid founder Bob Geldof, who was knighted by the Queen, lately?
No. Causes come and go if you don't have the power.
How much does Al Gore care to get his policies passed? If he does, he would run, not run away because he don't like getting dirty

Ask the polar bears how they feel if he doesn't run and they die...
He is the only politician (and that is all he is, a politician, that will be on his tombstone, he was born a politician, by a politician, and his father bred him to be president not to win awards. You give awards to people at the very end of their viable career (like lifetime achievement awards, like Gold Watches)

It's up to Al- either s&it or get off the can and back Obama while there is still time
for Obama to catch Hillary. Because otherwise, Al is implicitly backing Hillary.

Yes you've been advocating it for more than four years now. And no matter how many people told you back then that is wasn't a realistic idea you continued to blather on about it with more furor than any effort to help the draft movement. It is proof that you'd rather just win the arguement than do anything constructive. And from what I've seen only one person agrees with you and his logic seems to be as specious as yours.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Translation:

Blather, blather, blather, BS, blather, blather, only I know the truth, blather, blather, more BS, blather, blather, only I'm right, blather, blather, lies, blather, the Clinton's are evil, blather, blather, blather, more lies, blather, blather.

What's the difference?

President/ VP/ if he isn't in it, it makes no difference whatsoever

You are right/ I am right Who cares?

If Gore don't get in, nothing will change. We are doomed.

And 2 people on this little thread besides me agreed with the VP thing

You can idolize the McAuliffe/Clinton clan all you like. I choose not to, nor will I vote for her unless Al or Obama is her veep. It's that simple.
If she is the nominee, none of our votes matter anyhow.

The difference is reality based constructive efforts that have a chance of success versus a delusional unrealitic goal that will never happen.

:good:

Rather, I think it is you who is skewing the issue and making a mean and self-centered issue of it. You talk about Al's obligation...what about our own obligation to honor his wishes?

Perhaps if some could recognize their whining as simply a self-interested sense of personal rejection and not try and project blame elsewhere, they might realize that no one is at fault here. There was a personal as well as a public decision to be made and it is not our decision to make. And as James so eloquently put it, Al did ask the draft campaigns to cease their efforts. I think there is a copy here of what he also told us in '03....you might wish to re-read what he said to us then as a point of reference. No, I think your and REAG20008's objections are based more on a matter of timing.

I fully realize that some people may take their disappointment out on something outside of themselves, but really disappointment needs to be dealt with from within. I've heard some of the same so-called loyal Gore supporters rail about some mistaken idea that he also didn't fight hard enough after the 2000 debacle.

I guess you just can not please everyone. The fact that people took it upon themselves to initiate a draft campaign means that they took full responsibility for their act come what may, and I do not think they need a defense.

So Al being President never had a chance?

That is what you are saying.

Which also means his goals never had a chance too.

Translation:

Blather, blather, blather, let me put words in James' mouth, blather, blather, blather, lies, blather, blather.

Come 2010 see how nothing has changed when Hillary is President

Proove me right or wrong then
If there is no hope, then it matters little