Yep, Sherman has spoken and now is the time to select plan B.

Me? I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee because that's the only way to get the Repugs out of the White House (Al's house).

Once I've picked up the pieces and gotten my four week bender out of the way (4 years is beyond my budget) I'll try to work for the causes we generally feel are important. We must defend the Constitution and the planet come what may. :spikey:

My pick of current Democratic candidates is probably Chris Dodd. I don't expect him to win the nomination but you never know.. Anyway I will vote for the Democratic Nominee in 2008. If it's Hillary Clinton, then yes, I will vote for her.

Gore/Bloomberg Unity 2008

or push like Hell for a Gore VP so he is on the ballot one way or another with either Hillary or Obama.

There is no other choice gonna ride in or save the day.

Other than that, shall vote for Obama or Kucinich in the primary (though NY NJ is almost assuredly going Hillary's way no matter how any of us in the area vote now...if Hillary were to lose NY primary, she will lose the race).

General election shall wait and see what happens

(btw-the wording on the above poll is not really condusive for an honest poll, really now-saying splinter when next to 3rd party shows bias to a 3rd party run)

Wayne in Washington and anyone else regarding Chris Dodd-

Please people, in spite of what Dodd has done lately, he has helped to undermine elections in this country.

The Help America Vote Act, HAVA, was oh so conveniently ready to go on the heals of the 2000 election fiasco.

Primary in the House on HAVA were Steny Hoyer and Bob Ney. Well, Ney is now in prison and Hoyer has become a big problem in the Senate for rank and file Democrats who actually want to behave as democrats.

Primary in the Senate were Mitch McConnell (enough said) and Chris Dodd.

HAVA was headed to eliminate paper ballots in this country. HAVA also mandated a revamp of voter registration systems, which happens to make disenfranchising certain groups much easier.

When it looked like people where getting a little to far on getting a mandate for at least a paper trail that the voter could look at from the touch screens, all of the above, Ney, Hoyer, McConnell, and DODD wrote a letter to Congress to get a mandate for paper stopped.

That battle is still being fought and no one in congress gets it except maybe Kucinich.

Holt's bill that is still in committee would not forbid the use of touch screens and would keep in power the EAC, which is appointed by the President. The current EAC has acted in peculiar ways, with members responsible for the touch screens to editing a study and gagging its author, for a while, when that study showed that there was virtually no VOTER fraud to be found. People just don't go vote illegally.

It's not about voter fraud- it's about ELECTION fraud, from touch screens that may or may not record your vote correctly or may or may not add it up correctly. The people in charge of elections don't want a way to audit an election and if they have a voting system that produces a voter generated, paper ballot, they fight like hell to make sure that no recounts, or election audits take place.

For the company that Hoyer and Dodd kept on HAVA to trying to subvert the grass roots drive for election accountability, I cannot support Chris Dodd. Nor could I support Kerry given that he just rolled over on the theft of the 2004 election.

Keep in mind that certain people can vote in ways that look good, now and then, if they know the rank and file behind them will keep the "party" faith.

Dodd could go a long way if he would denounce HAVA, apologize for his part in it, and work to get it overturned and paper ballot, hand counted elections mandated for at least federal office. And while he's at it, rewrite election law so that just because an election has been certified- generally too soon to find any hanky panky- if an audit finds that the other candidate did win, they will take the office they rightfully won, not an imposter just because "time" ran out.

If you want to take back your country, take back your vote. You have to do that on the county and state level. If you go to Votersunite.org, you can probably find an elections group in your area working on the issues.

FYI Wayne, it was a Republican, Toby Nixon, in the House in Washington State, with a multi-year grass roots effort pounding away at the House and Senate in Washington, who was largely responsible for getting a paper, voter verifiable mandate passed there. Much more to do, including banning touch screens, getting extensive audits in place, and banning vote by mail. But that's true for much of the country.

(With the caveat that Oregon, who votes virtually all by mail, does it the most right. At least they can keep track of what went out and what should be coming back in. Do read what Palast has to say about the problems with vote by mail)


Go to Votersunite.org for a LOT of information.

Palast's book "Armed Madhouse" has a ton of information. Palast kind of downplays the touchscreens but he acknowledges the dangers and explains the other ways of voter disenfranchisement. Read what he has to reveal about Richardson in New Mexico.

Palast is also has information about Gore. Occidental Petroleum is one and Gore's push for NAFTA is another. Which is why my screen name is "Questions." Gore, like Dodd, can redeem himself. Heck, he's three quarters of the way there. But I would like him to admit that NAFTA was a mistake and make that one of his primary goals to fix should he become President, because I think he could do it. :Y:

I honestly don't know, so for the moment I chose "get a lobotomy." Of course I know you expect a more serious answer out of me, and probably before I get that procedure done, so all I can say is that I will have a principled vote, a vote of conscience. I will not hold my nose for anyone. Period. Not this time. I back Kucinich's attempts at impeachment, and I will work toward that end. I will also support other Liberal/Progressive candidates and try to defeat the DLC so-called "Centrists."

Actually, Gore was quoted today in an article in the Financial Times as saying, "I have not made a Sherman statement." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21759787/

Never said Gore let it slip from his mouth. Also the article says he said it "last week." whenever that was. :Y:

Gore as VP. I started a thread on it.

Kinda unrealistic huh? VP???? The leader of the worldwide climate change revolution? With all the accolades why on earth would he want to be second fiddle to Hillary or anyone else? Ask Obama, he knows. No one in the race commands the respect Gore does. He will not be a backup. Nope, not happening I predict.

I'm currently doing a deployment in Iraq and can honestly say I'm none to happy with the way the debates are going or path to the Presidency for matter. I do really hope that Al Gore runs, it just feels right when i think of him as President. I have sworn to defend this country, and i do somewhat feel I do, but I also do feel our country is heading down the wrong path. We fight in a "conflict" that has no meaning. We should not be here. I believe, as I'm sure many others do, that Al Gore is the man for the job. Al Gore is the man to take our beautiful country and set it back on the right path. Though, if somehow that does not happen, although i hope it does, I promise to place my vote and give support to the Democratic Nominee.

Thanks for your words wulfd2007 :clap: We also think Al Gore can be the best President to get America back on the right path.

:good: :good: :good: :clap: :good: :good: :good:

Back whomever wins the Democrat nomination (the old "hold your nose")

If Gore doesn't enter, Richardson is getting my vote. If he doesn't win, then i'll plug my nose and vote for whoever wins the Democratic nomination (Unless, it's Kucinich or Gravel).

I want to change my vote from 3rd party splinter to write in for Al!!

Actually, we may be recommending that people vote "uncommitted" at their primaries. Writing in Al Gore has problems. For one thing, in many states, the person has to give his/her permission to have the write-in votes counted. But more than that, there can be problems with the fact that everyone doesn't enter in the person's name exactly the same way. Some will write in Al Gore, some will write Al Gore, Jr. Some will write Albert Gore, or Albert Gore, Jr., etc. Even though it's perfectly obvious that they're all for the same person, they have to be the same to be counted for the same person.

Apparently voting "ucommitted" though will allow uncommitted delegates to go to the convention, and those delegates can then vote for Gore. Not all will, but many probably would, at least on a second ballot if it were to come to that.

We're exploring this option. It's a long shot, as are all our options now, but we don't have much left we can do. :rolleyes:

Look... a ray of hope! I like the sound of this, EM! :clap:
And I have plenty of time to get this type thing going in NC - our primary isn't till May! Please keep us posted on this possibility! I'll look into it from my end, too, now that I have all those contacts in high places from the ballot effort. :coolwink:

It's a very slim ray of hope, but we feel we have to try whatever we can. If we can get uncommitted delegates to the convention, and then we have enough of us (Gore supporters) circulating (and we're working on that as well), it's possible, and I emphasize this is a long shot, that we could talk enough people into looking to Gore as the unity candidate if no clear winner emerges on a first ballot. The likelihood of this is very small. Most delegates are committed to their candidate, and obviously the candidates will be fighting like mad to sway people to their side.

There are many who see a brokered convention as more of a possibility in 2008 than it's been for a long time. And it is true that even in recent days, Obama and Hillary are still neck and neck in the polls coming out of Iowa. We'll see . . .

It maybe a slim ray but it is hope and if it is carried by enough with passion even a slim ray can be a powerful force. I thank you for keeping that hope alive.

I can't say how physically helpful I can be but whatever I am able to do either financially or other wise you have all my support.

I know it is not scientific, but AOL conducted a poll asking which of the presidential candidates people would most like to eat dinner with or take a vacation with and least like to eat dinner with or take a vacation with. Not surprisingly, Obama rated a close second to Guiliani, who will be an afterthought and DOA come Januray (he will me 2008's Howard Dean) as the most likeable. By an OVERWHELMING percentage, Hillary Clinton was rated the least likeable. Her nomination will not only probably cost us the WH, but seriously impede our chances of expanding or even retaining our House and Senate majorities. So, you ask what now?

1) Third Party Gore candidacy: I have said this before: I liken a Gore 3rd Party run to an Elvis sighting. Moreover, he would siphon far more votes from the Dem nominee than from the Republican one, handing the WH to them.

2) Support Obama and pray he chooses Gore as his running mate...whether Gore would accept is another story.

This is someone's post from the petition site. It would be nice if the various draft Gore sites could update them so that people would know what the current plan is. (btw, What IS the current plan??)


Mike Drew FL "Please let me know how I can help. Is this still possible. I sure hope so, but how? You indicate on the website that you will no longer be trying to put Gore on the ballot in California. In that case I think it would be a good idea to everyone how his candidacy could take place at be successful,eg. at the convention. Please education everyone so that they can come on board and give a maximum effort to a plausible candidacy. Thanks, Mike"

Would the Obama possibility be the basis of the "complications" that Earthmother mentioned as a reason to stop the primary ballot drives?

Obama has already dismissed this as a possibility.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gmnaFOE...CWEdB7bv9NuDDAw

I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but I think the scenario these people have in mind, James, is Obama stepping aside to be veep while Gore gets the #1 spot. Obama hasn't addressed that, but obviously he wouldn't, and it can't work like that anyway, as you know. The only way that could happen is if there were a brokered convention (highly unlikely) and Obama turned his delegates loose to support a Gore nomination.

I still have the gut feeling that something is going on, and Gore will end of president.
It could very well happen at the convention, if there is no clear winner. He could still be a write in.

Obama did NOT categorically deny it

He shooed, shooed the answer in a good humor way

But in politics James, as you well know...

NO does not mean NO

And if NO means not yes, then Al Gore has never said yes, therefore it is a no, but NO does NOt mean NO it just means wink wink wink wink wink

No means nothing, nothing at all...
Remember James, you said Hillary was not even running for president, you did not see it at all, you in the past did not see Obama running either.

Obama did not deny it he was playing word games (WHY IN GOD"S NAME WOULD someone reveal their inner secret 10 months before- that is just plain hogwash stupid).

However, the reality is, Hillary still leads all other candidates put together so Obama is not near her nationwide. So what he wants only works if he catches Hillary, which he hasn't yet (unfortunately? Or is it fortunate ???

However, as the days go on, the odds appear shrinking for Al...
You look at it realistically, the capital venture thing sure did not help anything

Translation:

Blather, blather, blather, circular logic, blather, blather, blather, only I see the truth, blather, blather, I hate the Clintons, blather, blather, put words in other people's mouth, blather, blather, blather, trying to win an arguement I lost over 4 years ago, blather, blather.

We were specifically told that the KPCB capital venture partnership in no way influenced Gore's ability or decision to run or not to run. In other words, if he wanted to, he still could, and that shouldn't be taken as a sign that there's no chance. That's not to deny that things aren't looking too good for him getting in, but the KPCB partnership isn't a factor. At least that's what we were led to believe.

This makes sense as Al has been involved in business partnerships of various sorts for quite some time...

This does not matter to REAGan. This person is a conk troll here to create division.

Go vote for Hillary.
Do her toes taste good Dick Morris?

As you and James are the only defenders of Hillary on this board, time and again.
Last thing you want is to upset the status quo.(Which is Hillary).
You and W sitting in the tree- k-i-s-s-i-n-g

Again, wonder if you and James are one and the same, the way you two tagteam.
Do Hillary's toes taste good Dick Morris?
Because that seems to be who you are.

Hillary sucks. (although if she did, Bill would not have defamed America and caused Al to not be seated in the first place).
What part of this is NOT the Clinton board don't you get? We don't want Hillary, nor will we ever vote for any clintonite ever again. They ruined the nation and the democratic party.
What part of that don't you get rude ones?

algorefan and James-
you two are either WHIP, trying to whip us into allignment and remaining democrats forever so the status quo remains the same

Or, you remind me of the crotchety old guy from the Twilight Zone's Kick the Can

Remember how all the old people believed that if they went and played Kick the Can they would become young again?
Except for one old, nasty Jack Gilford(from the cracker Jack commercials, do you remember him?) who did not believe and thought they were "nuts"
So he did not go out with them in the chill of night and did not kick the can, and whilst the others all became young kids again, and now he wanted to join them, it
was too late. He missed the boat.

You can't change the system without rocking the boat.
You can't go home again unless you Kick the Can.

So stop trying to stiffle (as your friend Archie Bunker would have said), the hopes of some people that something in America will change from this corrupt
Bush/Clinton/Bush/Clinton stagnant stalemate that has become our government

Go outside, kick the can.

Do you remember when YOU had dreams that came true algorefan and James?
(first remove your stuffy white shirt and think back to the 60s, when things became possible, but it took thinking outside of the box to attain it
(and of course, back then we thinkers were also told to toe the line...Thank God and Abbie Hoffman we didn't.)

Translation:

Blather, blather, blather, non-sequitar, blather, blather, unrelated old TV show analogy, blather, blather, blather, only I speak the truth, blather, blather, unsupported accuations, blather, blather, blather.

translation-RUDE as usual Dick Morris.

We would have had Time Enough at Last if only Gore ran or people thought outside of the box

Instead we are just No Country for Old Men

BTW- Why do you think Tommy Lee Jones, who was Al Gore's roommate in college, has 1000s of lines on his well-worn face, yet Al Gore's face is smooth as
say Kelly Ripa.
They are the same age, went to the same school...
Just a random wonderment of two men who were both the inspiration for the
Erich Seagal written character of Oliver in Love Story (according to Erich)...

Betcha Tommy Lee Jones wouldn't desert a sinking ship (that is why his face
is sewn with so many lines). He would fight til his death if he thought something was worth fighting for

America is dying. Why won't Al Gore help save us when we are calling out for America's last hope before decaying into totalitarianism?

btw my dearest James- you are the one using strawman theories by saying the Clinton's are such wonderful people. It is you using non-sequitar's not me.

Translation:

Blather, blather, blather, Tommy Lee Jones non-sequitar, blather, blather, blather, only I know the truth, blather, blather, fearmongering arguement, blather, blather, blather, putting words in other people's mouth, blather, blather, using the term 'strawman agruement' incorrectly, blather I hate the Clintons, blather blather, blather.