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Title: Truth
Description: Truth again


Truth - October 13, 2007 11:50 AM (GMT)
How strange that Gore does not have an email address to be reached on.
How strange that he claims there is a consensus (everyone in agreement) about global warming when many professional scientists (as opposed to amateurs who become politicians) disagree.
How strange Gore tells everyone to cut their carbon footprints whilst flying round the world, while having a 20 room eight bathroom mansion in Nashville with combined energy bills in 2006 coming to nearly $30,000.
How strange that An Inconvenient Truth is riddled with errors and unsubstantiated statements.
How strange that the "exact fit" Gore claims for rises in temperature and CO2 over 650,000 has been called false in court.
How strange that alleged 20 foot rises in sea level will not happen in the near future but in millions of years.
How strange that, despite Gore's claims, no islands have been evacuated or polar bears drowned from sea level rises - because these rises have not happened.
How strange that upstate New York's "Love Canal" was already notorious for its toxic waste when Gore "found it".
As for Gore attending 187 town hall meetings every year for 16 years in Tennessee, don't laugh. He claimed 3,000 town hall meetings in those 16 years. Every other day
for 16 years!!!!
Don't believe Gore's claim to have been sung to sleep by Look for the Union Label.
It was written in 1975 when Gore was 27 years old. Says it all, doesn't it? A baby at 27.
Can you trust a word this man says?

al001 - October 13, 2007 01:05 PM (GMT)
How strange that an idiot who calls itself truth can take 1/2 truth and mostly lies and call them truth.

Must be where you got your user name, truth. I suggest you change it to S**t. (By the way for the really stupid like you that has an h and a i in it.)

scalbers - October 13, 2007 01:25 PM (GMT)
Incidentally instead of the sea level rise it's the melting of sea ice that disrupts the lives of the polar bears who largely live on this ice.

I have a Masters degree in Atmospheric Science and I wrote an essay that explains many of the subtleties in global warming to help advance the discussion. I'll try and paste it in here:

.......................................................................................................................


Greetings,

Here are some thoughts on how I interpret the subject of global warming. I think global warming appears to be really occuring and greenhouse gas emissions are likely the majority of the cause. There are some natural variations as well, such as from solar cycles and volcanic activity.

CO2 Trends
The reason I would be most concerned is not what has happened so far, but what can very possibly happen if we stay on the present course. Carbon dioxide (CO2) mainly from fossil fuel burning is being released into the atmosphere faster than natural processes can remove it, thus increasing atmospheric concentrations. The rate of rise in CO2 concentration has been increasing as well, from about 1.3 parts per million per year several decades ago to about 2.2 ppm/yr in 2005. The natural background is about 280ppm and current CO2 concentrations are about 380ppm. A linear extrapolation of the 2005 trend would yield a doubling of CO2 over natural values by around 2080. It is often suggested that short of that, values of just 450ppm would represent a threshold of unacceptable changes in the environment. These values are potentially just a few decades away.

If we wait until things get obviously worse before we take action it could be too late for reasonably quick action to restore our familiar climate. One aspect of the carbon cycle is that even if the global emission rate is held constant, the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere would continue to rise for quite some time (e.g. one or more centuries) and reach levels several times what it is at present. Alternatively, to hold the CO2 concentration at current levels, the emission rate would have to be cut by roughly one-half (without considering the effect of the ocean reservoirs filling up). To hold the currently elevated temperature constant the emission rate would need about a two-thirds cut. Even if we magically turned off all emissions at once, it would probably take 100-300 years for CO2 levels to come down close to the natural background levels. The corresponding "half-life" would be something on the order of 50 years, subject to changes in the various CO2 sinks. One should also consider the challenge of the developing world's desire to play catchup to the level of per capita emissions of the industrialized world when projecting total global emissions.

Other Factors
It is interesting to note that the estimated solar variations and volcanic activity can account for many past variations in climate such as the Little Ice Age and some temperature fluctuations in the early-mid 20th century. Although the slight cooling in the mid-20th century is consistent with these forcing mechanisms, they cannot explain the more recent warming since about 1970. One has to invoke greenhouse gas effects to explain this recent (and accelerating) trend.

Computer Models
Note that the computer models fit what is really happening in terms of most of the warming being in continental areas in the winter at night (like Colorado on a January evening). Also high latitudes get more warming as witnessed by thunderstorms occuring in Alaska where they haven't before or Nome having more days over 70 degrees. My guess from the models is about 6 deg F warming from 2000 to 2100. Most models are within about 25% of this value.

Polar Ice
I hear the Larson ice shelf is melting due to warming, yet Antartica elsewhere may be getting colder, perhaps because of some local interaction with a separate issue such as ozone depletion. Mountain glaciers worldwide are melting apparently faster than the natural value as we come out of the ice age from 10000 years ago. The large Antarctic ice sheets aren't melting much more than the "natural" trend right now, but that could change supposedly on part of the ice sheet if things warm up too much. The bottom of the ice sheets are actually part liquid due to the heat of the earth being conducted from below, so it wouldn't have to warm up too much on the top of the snow pack. So far the melt rate of the Antarctic ice cap (measured by the GRACE satellites, mostly in the West Antarctic Ice Sheet) amounts to roughly a 0.4mm rise in sea level per year and would melt the cap in about 200000 years.

Summer sea ice in the arctic is thinning noticeably and coverage has decreased significantly by about 25% in the past 30 years. Models and recent trends suggest this ice will probably be mostly gone by the end of the century or even sooner. This suggests a major change to the Arctic climate, albedo and ecosystems. The Greenland ice cap shows signs of melting at an increasing rate and is already contributing about 10% (0.25mm) to the annual rate of global sea level rise. This is in contrast to other studies showing some thickening during the 1990s, so it appears there may be some changes underway in the balance of increased snowfall in the interior compared with accelerated melting along the coast. A total Greenland ice cap melt would correspond to around 7 meters of sea level so the current rate would melt the cap in roughly 36000 years. While this appears to be a comfortable margin it is notable compared with the cap having been around for millions of years. It may also continue the current accelerating trend so this linear melting time could shorten dramatically.

Sea Level
The current overall sea level rise rate is about 2-3mm per year or about 1 foot per century. Rates have varied from about 11mm/year at the end of the last ice age to probably well under 1mm/year in recent pre-industrial times. While sea level should be about to peak in this regard, it appears that human caused changes are starting to accelerate the rising trend. The potential for the sea level rise to accelerate further as temperatures warm is supported by geological evidence that the sea level was roughly 12 feet higher during a period of warming about 120000 years that is similar to what is predicted over the next couple of centuries. Thus sea level could continue the rising trend to much higher levels than what we see today. I would anticipate a rise of about 6 inches by 2030 and 2-3 feet by 2100. Sea level could rise much more in the 22nd century.

Then again, humans are a part of nature to take the opposing viewpoint, but these disruptions of climate will likely impact the Earth's biodiversity and the balance of ecosystems just as much as inconvenience people.

Carbon Cycle & Feedbacks
The global carbon cycle is an area where we could use more research along with ongoing (and perhaps accelerated) prudent action. Some research suggests that land reservoirs of CO2 may be near their limits and of temporary benefit as well. Changes in farming practices could be helpful on this front if carbon can be fixed into the soil.

There is an as yet undetermined risk that the global warming started by human greenhouse gas emissions could start a positive feedback of CO2 and methane release from oceanic clathrates and Arctic permafrost areas. A positive feedback effect is possible if warmer temperatures melt Arctic permafrost thus releasing CO2 stored in peat bogs. As sea ice melts, the lowering albedo of the Arctic Ocean represents another positive feedback. These scenarios could double or triple the currently expected warming and have a more grave effect on human and other lifeforms than is already expected. This possibility should be considered in the "risk assessment" of how aggressively to act in reducing our greenhouse gas emissions. In the past few years methane has been leveling off, though it remains elevated above background levels enough to contribute about 1/3 of the radiative forcing compared with CO2. We'll have to watch carefully for changes in that trend.

Note with the oceans that as the water warms it would be less able to absorb CO2 keeping more in the atmosphere producing some positive feedback. What CO2 does get absorbed in the oceans makes it more acidic thus threatening marine life.
As the oceans circulate they will eventually come to a CO2 balance with the atmosphere halting additional uptake. We then have to wait thousands of years for geological processes to kick in that would incorporate CO2 into rock formations.

Solutions & Long View
My solutions would be a number of things - two that aren't talked about too much are global population reduction and acceleration of hydrogen fusion research. Biofuels that can store carbon in the soil (via pyrolysis) are also intriguing as they could potentially help reverse global warming. The varied mix of concurrent solutions could be the subject of another writeup - the main point being that one has to weigh costs vs. benefits in the face of a good if imperfect prediction. How fast would a prudent response be? My rough estimate would be converting to at least 10% renewable (non-polluting) fuels by 2010, 20% by 2020, on up to 100% by 2100. This would still end up giving us several degrees F warming this century, though at least it might be an achievable way out of this conundrum. If we can completely phase out greenhouse gases earlier, say by 2060 or so, this could give us a more comfortable margin of safety.

It is true that solar forcing could tend to produce an ice age over the next couple of thousand years since the earth's perihelion occurs while the sun shines over the reflective Antarctic ice cap. This may be a mild ice age since the Earth's orbit is more circular these days. However, the amount of human caused global warming appears to be considerably more that what would be needed simply to prevent a future ice age (i.e. too much of a good thing).

Taking a longer view, the current CO2 level (as augmented by fossil fuel burning, etc.) is shown by ice core samples to be the highest in over 600,000 years. Other evidence leads to a best guess that it is now the highest in tens of millions of years. We thus appear to have pushed the earth's atmosphere into a state it hasn't seen since hominids started walking the planet. Taking the really long view, warming will happen in a billion years anyway as the sun consumes its fuel and heats up if we haven't decided to move the earth farther away. It's also interesting to note that in earth's distant past (billions of years ago) we actually needed the much greater CO2 (and methane) amounts that then existed to compensate for the fainter young sun. CO2 was still very high (with a warmer climate) when dinosaurs walked the earth. Higher values in the present era would not be so helpful for currently existing lifeforms.

Steve Albers

P.S. More info in the "Global Warming" section of my weather links at:
http://laps.fsl.noaa.gov/albers/bookmarks_wx.html

TNblue - October 13, 2007 03:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 05:50 AM)
How strange that Gore does not have an email address to be reached on.
How strange that he claims there is a consensus (everyone in agreement) about global warming when many professional scientists (as opposed to amateurs who become politicians) disagree.
How strange Gore tells everyone to cut their carbon footprints whilst flying round the world, while having a 20 room eight bathroom mansion in Nashville with combined energy bills in 2006 coming to nearly $30,000.
How strange that An Inconvenient Truth is riddled with errors and unsubstantiated statements.
How strange that the "exact fit" Gore claims for rises in temperature and CO2 over 650,000 has been called false in court. 
How strange that alleged 20 foot rises in sea level will not happen in the near future but in millions of years.
How strange that, despite Gore's claims, no islands have been evacuated or polar bears drowned from sea level rises - because these rises have not happened.
How strange that upstate New York's "Love Canal" was already notorious for its toxic waste when Gore "found it".
As for Gore attending 187 town hall meetings every year for 16 years in Tennessee, don't laugh.  He claimed 3,000 town hall meetings in those 16 years. Every other day
for 16 years!!!!
Don't believe Gore's claim to have been sung to sleep by Look for the Union Label.
It was written in 1975 when Gore was 27 years old.  Says it all, doesn't it? A baby at 27.
Can you trust a word this man says?



HOW STRANGE that you don't read peer reviewed scientific papers from non-biased researchers and, believe many rumors that have grown so out of proportion that I just have to laugh at how ridiculously inaccurate they are.

If you're really interested in finding out the truth, then do some reading instead of listening to folks like Rush Limbaugh. All your concerns have been addressed over and over on these boards.

It puzzles me that so many vitriolic people still have a problem with the size of Gore's home. I have no problem at all with people who genuinely are trying to understand things they may have heard or misunderstood about Gore and his work in a non-confrontational manner. However, when you pitch in the house thing it just shows your true colors and says to me that you're really not interested in the TRUTH so why waste time here trying to explain it....again.

Maybe you'd have more fun chatting with Ann Coulter than the folks here. :angry:

JamesAquila - October 13, 2007 05:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that Gore does not have an email address to be reached on.


Most celebrities don't.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that he claims there is a consensus (everyone in agreement) about global warming when many professional scientists (as opposed to amateurs who become politicians) disagree. 


Over 250 peer-reviewed studies agree that global warming is real. There is not one peer-reviewed study that disputes that. Most of the so-called scientists that disagree are not evironmental scientists but scientists in other fields.


QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange Gore tells everyone to cut their carbon footprints whilst flying round the world, while having a 20 room eight bathroom mansion in Nashville with combined energy bills in 2006 coming to nearly $30,000.


Gore flies around the world on mostly commerical airlines on flights that would be flying whether he was on them or not. And he purchase carbon offsets for everyone of his trips.
The energy bills of his home in Tennessee are on a square foot basis equal to those in that region of the country. He has spent millions adding solar power and making other changes to make that house less dependent on CO2 emitting fuels including using Green Power Switch.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that An Inconvenient Truth is riddled with errors and unsubstantiated statements.


Not true. Most scientists say he got things right. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/06/...uths/index.html

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that the "exact fit" Gore claims for rises in temperature and CO2 over 650,000 has been called false in court. 


That claim was presented as a worst case scenario. Gore has never denined that. And it was a judge, not a scientist, who said that the claim was exaggerated, not that it was false.

That judge also said many of the claims made by the film were fully backed up by the weight of science. He identified “four main scientific hypotheses, each of which is very well supported by research published in respected, peer-reviewed journals and accords with the latest conclusions of the IPCC.”

In particular, he agreed with the main thrust of Gore’s arguments: “That climate change is mainly attributable to man-made emissions of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide (‘greenhouse gases’).”

The other three main points accepted by the judge were that global temperatures are rising and are likely to continue to rise, that climate change will cause serious damage if left unchecked, and that it is entirely possible for governments and individuals to reduce its impacts.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that alleged 20 foot rises in sea level will not happen in the near future but in millions of years.


Again Gore admittely presented a worst case scenario.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that, despite Gore's claims, no islands have been evacuated or polar bears drowned from sea level rises - because these rises have not happened.


And yet again he presented a worst case scenario of what could happen of we don't stop Global Warming.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
How strange that upstate New York's "Love Canal" was already notorious for its toxic waste when Gore "found it".


He never claimed to have found Love Canal. He said "that was the one that started it all". Biased reporters changed his statement to 'I was the one that started it all'.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/feature...7/10/gore200710

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
As for Gore attending 187 town hall meetings every year for 16 years in Tennessee, don't laugh.  He claimed 3,000 town hall meetings in those 16 years. Every other day for 16 years!!!!


This is a new one on me. Never heard him claim that.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
Don't believe Gore's claim to have been sung to sleep by Look for the Union Label.
It was written in 1975 when Gore was 27 years old.  Says it all, doesn't it? A baby at 27.


He said that as a joke. The GOP and biased reporters tried to make it sound that Gore was lying.

QUOTE (Truth @ Oct 13 2007, 06:50 AM)
Can you trust a word this man says?


Much more than we can trust anything you say.

dbciii - October 13, 2007 06:30 PM (GMT)
This OP is drivel. I assume the poster feels outrageously witty and creative. Reciting a bunch of half-baked talking points and inserting "How strange" in front of each is Pulitzer-quality work, to be sure! (not)

Several people have responded to this silliness, and I guess that's good. Someone else might be looking for debunkng of the same nonsense. So thanks, "truth" for providing a thread to collect some of the rightwing naysayer folklore and its rebuttal.

But to the OP: just be aware, that regardless how much you mock, and protest the earth is flat and man really didn't land on the moon, the facts are what they are. trying to find ways to ridicule Al Gore is a pretty lame way to build up your obviously limited self-esteem. You should try tilting at windmills - I am sure you'll be much more successful.




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