The US government has been flat out lying to all of us for years. There is NO ONE in our government that can be trusted, going way way back. And it was done by both Republicans and Democrats.

Please stop being in denial about everything.

Read the following:


"Under Attack by Unknown Forces"

Would the US allow its citizens to be attacked and killed by a foreign power and then cover up the facts?

It would - and it has.

On June 8th, 1967, the Israeli military attacked and attempted to sink the USS Liberty as she sailed under a US flag in international waters. Thirty-four US servicemen were killed and 171 injured by a well-coordinated, multi-wave assault which included the use of napalm.

The Israeli military called the attack a "tragic mistake" and then-President Lyndon Johnson agreed it was nothing more. Sailors who were aboard the ship were warned not to disclose the facts of what happened that day under penalty of court martial - or worse.

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Liberty Attacked without Provocation ... and the cover up

I hope that's a real question, Rev, cuz I'm gonna try to answer it. First, lemme say that on balance, since its emergence as the preeminent power after WWII, the US has been more a force for good in the world than otherwise. But those otherwises have been piling up nevertheless -- to the point where they have reached a critical mass. Real soul-searching on this issue by ordinary Americans began, I think, with Watergate. But that necessary process of figuring out that America had become a quite seriously oppressive empire ended with the Reagan era. Since then, it's all been downhill for Uncle Sam.

"Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" may be a cliche, but cliches become cliches by expressing a fundamental truth. In other words, it's not cynical to say that power corrupts. We know that it easily can, so we should always be mindful of the danger. But every country in history with imperial ambitions has failed to be mindful of it. With the move from power to absolute power, every empire has crashed.

Eisenhower knew that America was headed down that road -- which is why he ended his presidency cautioning Americans about the military-industrial complex. I suspect his warning came too late: he should have spent his presidency trying to dismantle it, rather than enabling it. Now, every state in the union is financially dependent on its military bases and arms manufactories. To start dismantling them now, along with the 750-plus basis in something like 130 countries around the world, would require a profound, radical, earth-shaking shift in American self-concept.

What Dubya has done is provide the rest of the world with an opportunity finally to say, We're mad as hell and we don't wanna take it anymore. Latin America has made good use of this opportunity to get out from under the imperial thumb. Western Europe has finally been jolted into an acknowledgment of its spinelessness with respect to its relationship with the US. A lot of consciousness-raising is happening among the Arab peoples of the Middle East -- and it doesn't look good for the American empire. China, India, and Brazil are very quickly learning that economic power is, in the long run, far more effective than military force. In short, there isn't much time left for that necessary critical mass of Americans to come to its senses, get out of the empire business, and return to republicanism. Otherwise, the world is in very big trouble.

What the world needs for America is a soft landing. That won't happen if Bush goes to war against Iran. But it could happen if you could persuade Gore to run in 2008 on an anti-war, pro-environment platform. Gore is no saint; he's got baggage, but he's the best electable choice you've got right now. He could work out as a good transitional figure -- one that could open the way for a truly anti-imperialist, pro-republic successor, someone who could really start that crucial dismantlement of your military-industrial juggernaut. However, a Gore presidency can only happen if a coalition of anti-war and pro-environment forces come together, forget their nit-picky differences, and be realistic about what's possible in the immediate future.

So, maybe now's the time to set aside the question, When did America go wrong? and start asking the question, How can we fix it so that America goes right again?

Excellent post! And welcome to our forum.

I was all set to put the time at the mid-fifties, with the M-I complex growing. I also would add that JFK's assassination was a likely turning point - or, rather, prevented what MIGHT have been a turn away from the agenda of THE MACHINE. I call it that, because it has become more than JUST the monster that is fueled by continuous war; it now includes other, less directly related big business - multinational finance, even retail giants like WalMart.

It large part, America did not "go wrong;" it was taken over in a slow coup. The three coequal branch government defined in the Constitution has sadly become near irrelevant.

Big money controls the media, prohibiting any real "people's watchdog" function of the Fourth Estate.

Big Money made political campaigns into expensive affairs requiring lots of TV time, mass mailing, telemarketing, incessant polling, etc. At the same time they were training an entire generation that 30-second sound bites were valid means of gathering information and making a decision. Then Big Money said to the candidates "we will fund your expensive campaign, but you have to do our bidding."

And that, in a nutshell, was that. They won, we lost. The Dark Side of the Force is in control.

When the Good Side of the Force makes a little headway, such as JFK, RFK, they are dealt with. When Nixon screwed up and let the other side in, Carter was ridiculed and marginalized. Big Money needed an oil crisis, and it got one. Whether the Iranian hostage crisis was a lucky break for them or more sinister, I don't know, but they made the best of it. When Clinton managed to get in, they pulled out all the stops to hound him out, while busily drying out bush jr and getting him his bones as Texas governor so he could be the next figurehead.

This may sound melodramatic, but I am sincere. We do not have a society that believes in finding "common ground" and trying to solve societal issues to the good of all. We have a huge game, where everyone is on one team one the other, and does everything they can do destroy the other team and "win." Only the "good" team doesn't realize it. They think the game has rules, and they try to play by them. And they are periodically creamed as a result. Fortunately the other team is arrogant and overconfident, keeps picking placeholders for office that turn out to have feet of clay.

If they ever get it right, there will be no more USA as we know it.

I agree with your final point, with the exception that I believe we must truly understand the enemy, understand that there is more to the other side than meets the eye, that "fixing it so America goes right again" requires VERY radical surgery.

The well-worn expression "follow the money" is oh-so appropo. Public funding of all political campaigns is the critical first step. The strangle hold that Big Money has on our supposed representatives pretty much prohibits and substantive improvements.

I would also like to welcome you zoya and say excellent post to both you and dbciii.

There is one note I would like to add regarding dbciii"s comment "Whether the Iranian hostage crisis was a lucky break for them or more sinister, I don't know, but they made the best of it." I don't know either but I do know that while I was attending the University of Houston, prior to the Iranian crisis, we had a lot of Iranian students. A large number of them were very proud of the assistance they were getting from our government and almost all of them were openly calling for the overthrow of the Shaw and all out war against the enemies of Iran. America was of course considered one of Iran's enemies since we backed the Shaw. Shortly before the Embassy fell the number of those students also fell.