Yesterday the house passed a voter id bill where voters are required to have a photo identification and proof of citizenship to participate in federal elections. The bill was passed 228-196 and it now goes to the Senate.

And this goes into affect in 2008 as well,personally if you ask me this is illegal and whether Al runs or not,it'll be even more difficult to vote for anyone in 2008.

Why is this illegal? You're not allowed to vote unless you're a U.S. citizen. Considering the problems we've been having with illegal immigration, I think having to prove t you're a U.S. citizen to be allowed to vote isn't a bad idea.

I know there are those who will cry foul and say this discriminates against minorities. But why wouldn't a minority person be able to prove citizenship? I don't know what kind of proof they're asking for, but it should be possible to provide. Most states now require a photo drivers license. I understand that many minority people don't have a drivers license because they can't afford a car (or drivers ed., which is no longer offered by many high schools), but then the government needs to make some kind of provisions for proof of citizenship.

Similarly, most poor people (and even many middle-class and upper-class people), won't have a passport. I suppose this would entail a massive effort to provide photo voter cards to all U.S. citizens, and that's obviously not going to happen. But when a person registers to vote, don't they have to show proof of citizenship? Maybe not. I can't remember anymore, it was so long ago.

I do think we need measures to guarantee that only U.S. citizens vote. How to do that without discriminating against minorities is tricky.

While it might seem innocent enough, I see it as a way to set up means to manipulate the vote. Just like turning away people because their name is supposedly on a "convicted felons" list, only to say "oops a different john smith" after the polls close.

This will provide selected "election officials" a way to selectively say "nope, picture doesn't look like you" or "this birth certificate has a typo" or whatever.

It is a trojan horse, imo.

but then, as stated earlier, I am paranoid

Here it is.

http://democrats.org/a/2006/09/blocking_th...ents=1#comments

Well, as we said before, you've got reason to be paranoid, and your points are good ones (as always :rolleyes: ).

I just think there has to be some way to do this so that there can't be the kind of thing you're talking about.

First I'd like to know, though: How often does it happen that a non-citizen votes? Is this a real problem? Does it represent a significant enough risk that it could actually sway an election?

Someday, in the technologically-advanced future, we'll have something like fingerprint IDs or retina-scanning or some other way to objectively and positively identify a person. Until that time, though, if non-citizens constitute a significant threat to elections, I do think something could be done about it.

Well, I've not heard of a major threat to elections. I think this is just more "immigrant bashing" posturing*. A meaningless bill like getting their shorts all in a twist over flag burning a good 30 years after it stopped being a significant form of protest.

These clowns have NO IDEA what their jobs are.

And, to be perfectly frank**, I don't really see the major significance if someone who lives here, raises kids, drives, works, pays taxes, and is worried about homeland security, might even be in the army but is not a citizen manages somehow to register and cast a vote. I mean, yes, it is not constitutional, and they should not be allowed to. But unless they are all banding together to write in Hugo Chavez or something, it is not nearly the threat to our elections that is the rampant fraud perpetrated on behalf of those people who passed that bill.

*Let me be clear that I absolutely think the flood of illegals should be stopped, primarily for security reasons, and secondarily because it is a drain on our infrastructure - welfare, schools, healthcare, various programs which provide to people more than they contribute to the economy can ill afford to have continuous massive influxes of "customers" without "contributors". And I also don't believe a blanket "amnesty for the 12 million who already snuck in is right.

**actually I am far from perfect, and my name is not frank

I'm glad you qualified what you did about illegal immigration. I'm against blanket amnesty as well (what . . . did the blankets do something wrong? [hey, two can play this game :tongue: ]). But I wouldn't be quite as accepting as you are of the occasional illegal immigrant managing to register and vote. It's wrong, it's unconstitutional, and it grates on me as one more way they're taking advantage of what we have to offer without giving in return. Few illegals pay taxes. Yes, many are hard workers, but then they send their kids to our schools, use our emergency rooms, get protection from our police, etc. and etc., all on our tax dollars. It's wrong. And allowing them to vote is a slap in the face, IMO, to every immigrant who has waited a year or two or more to come into this country legally.

My maternal grandparents came here from France. They had to wait nine long years (in northern Canada) before they could come in as U.S. citizens. Millions of others have waited and continue to wait. Why is it okay for these people to "cut in line," to enjoy the privilege of voting when they're not even citizens?

Well, obviously you struck a nerve here. This issue bothers me greatly. I don't want to see any bona fide citizens denied the right to vote because they can't produce a photo ID. But I also don't want people who aren't citizens being allowed to cast even one vote they're not legally entitled to.