http://www.nexusitalia.com/pentagon121.swf

I just want to say first that, over at the Zogby forums, someone mentioned that this video, while convincing, was facually inaccurate (they weren't specific). And I just want to say, I think the music used in the video seems a little trite, as if it's some kind of trailor for a movie rather than some questions into a national tragedy. Still convincing though.

From: 911in30Seconds.org (of which I haven't seen the other ads so I can't guarantee that anything you see on the site may not be graphic).

For a while after seeing that video, I thought 100% that Bush was behind the 9/11 and sent a cruise missile into the Pentagon. Not anymore though.

They do a great presentation, but there's often more to the truth than just a fancy presentation.

I don't know what to think as far as the Pentagon goes, I just know it's weird. The weirdest picture is of the photos below. However, on the History Channel they talked about how things happened and how this hole came to be and showed the picture, I doubt they'd show it if it was a cover up

(from different perspectives)







Here's something a little weird though. What about that lawn? Why no skid marks?




Without being callous enough to show other plance crashes, they usually leave skid marks. Where's all the debris? Why does nothing there look exactly like an airplane?

Why (according to the video anyway) was there no reports of turbulance, and why didn't cars on the highway fly away with the plane?

(This website does mention a plane cliping a light pole, and the photographer has a photo of the light pole)
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316.html


Why were all of those Pentagon videos confiscated but this was the only one released:
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images...1/1phot08.l.jpg
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images...1/2phot08.l.jpg
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images...8/3phot08.l.jpg
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images.../4photo08.l.jpg
http://www.startribune.com/stonline/images...8/5phot08.l.jpg

Look at the second picture, see if something seems a little different about it, if not, I'll tell you what I'm thinking (a thought I got from another site).

I have a lot more questions than answers, and nothing near enough information to make a sensible assumption from.

Even if it was a missile, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it was launched because of Bush or Cheney, for all we know it could've been a foreign missile, if a missile at all, not that I necessarily think it was.

I just think it's weird and raises a lot of questions. What do you think greyfox, and why? Also, what caused you to change your opinion of what you think happened?

Well, I thought it was Bush for logical reasons. By making Americans scared, he could be Big Brother and run his re-election campaign around fear and that he is "the only person to keep us safe". After seeing all the evidence you presented, I thought there was no doubt. Especially after reading the Bush invested a bunch of money into the company that makes our military stuff the day before 9/11.

What changed my mind? The thing would just be impossible. Bin Laden has admitted to being behind the whole thing, and has explained why he did it. Also, it wouldn't be possible for Bush to get the military to send a missile into one of the nation's buildings without any word being leaked.

I've heard about insider trading, but I never really looked into it, and never knew about Bush being involved.

Here's something interesting from the Memory Hole (which they got from NPR)

http://thememoryhole.org/tenet-911.htm
CIA Director Warned Congress About 9/11 Attacks

Click here to listen to it:
http://thememoryhole.org/tenet-911.mp3

"I spoke with Congressman Ike Skelton—a Democrat from Missouri and a member of the Armed Services Committee—who said that just recently the Director of the CIA warned that there could be an attack—an imminent attack—on the United States of this nature. So this is not entirely unexpected."

In case you haven't heard about it, an Executive Order allowing Jeb Bush to Declare Martial Law, given to him on Sept. 7th.

http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/or...1-09-07-01.html

There's no conspiracy though. Trust me.

But if you like this kind of stuff, and like games, buy the computer game Deus Ex. It's excellent and is very similar to the stuff in this thread. :)

You said the same thing about needing gun voters, then a week later said guns have no use...

Anyway, I'm not implying there was a conspiracy involved with the Pentagon crash, and I don't have a theory about how such a thing would happen.

I just knwo that there was a lot of strange things that sorrounded Sept.11th, and it just so happened to turn out to reflect well on Bush, despite the fact that it happened on his watch.

As far as the World Trade center goes, I don't know whether to regard that as criminal negligence, conciously failing to act, or even complicity, but I don't really have much that proves anything beyond what is in my opinion criminal negligence or conciously failing to act, so I won't jump to any conclusions beyond what I cannot back up with facts.

I do know that Clinton and Gore did an exponentially better job, and the warnings carried over to Bush, and Bush Did Nothing.

If it was a missile or small commuter plane, how do we explain all the passengers who died that day in the Pentagon crash? There was one famous person on board that plane--Barbara Olsen, wife of Ted Olsen (you remember him from Bush v. Gore in 2000). Barbara Olsen was a former federal prosecutor who served as Chief Investigative Counsel to the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight during its probe into the Clinton Administration’s "Travelgate" scandal. She appeared frequently as a commentator on CNN. We know that Barbara called her husband Ted several times from the plane, asking him what to do before it crashed. I don't know how you explain all that if you think it was a missile or commuter plane that hit the Pentagon.

I remember there were even nutcases who said that 757s didn't fly into the World Trade Center. Right. That's why we have those graphic videos showing them doing exactly that.

I don't care how much I despise the Bush administration or how much I believe that it will do just about anything to further its agenda, I will never believe that they were complicit in the events of 9/11. Even they wouldn't stoop that low.

I won't either EM. I have better faith in our people and our leaders than that. I also believe it demeans the loss of those passengers on the plane when we start to talk about things such as this. Frankly, I think all the talk about conspiracies makes the left look looney.

About that... If it were up to me, there would be no guns, but as long as there are, we might as well have some endorsments for it. Whether Dean became DNC chairman or not, there would still be the same amount of guns in America.

Absolutely. :wacko:

I find it very hard to believe that the whole crew in the White House, with as much professional, and political experience they have (remember many of them were employed during Bush 41, so they do have past experience in what it's like to run the country), could have just merely been incompetent.

After hearing that the National Security Advisor who's responsible for such things as FAA warnings, had 52 warnigns and didn't warn anyone. After knowing about the August 6th P.D.B. which Al Gore said was "more alarming and more pointed than any I saw in eight years I saw of daily CIA briefings" than anything he'd ever recieved in 8 years of being in the White House. According to the 9-11 Commission, there wasn't any follow-up meeting or discussion about it. Thomas J. Pickard, someone in charge of presenting John Ashcroft with warnings, said when he presented info abotu Al Qaeda to him "he did not want to hear this information anymore.”

There were thousands of other days when NORAD scrambled aircraft in less serious situations and got to their locations in 10 minutes, including many times in 2001, but after 2 planes hit the World Trade Center, NORAD still wasn't scrambled. Why is that? How can that be?

Additionally there was the Cooperative Research thing ( http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/essay.j...eytriedtowarnus ) Mebadgett posted a few months ago about foreign warnings, an area the 9-11 Commission - as far as I know - wasn't responsible for investigating.

I just can't bring myself to believe that people with so much experience can simply be so "inactive" without having any idea about the consequences.

I disagree, I don't believe asking questions about how or why something happened the way it did demeans their loss. Also, so far I haven't really said anyone conspired, or said I have some kind of theory about someone conspiring, but there're are alot of things that happened pre-Sept.11th that in my opinion seem suspicious. That's just my opinion though.

I'm not saying this because I want to believe the Bush Administration would let such a thing happen, and I'm not trying to use the people who died on Sept.11th as a means for attacking Bush politically, I just cannot let myself ignore the things I've read and hear which in my opinion seem very suspicious.

According to a Zogby poll ( http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040830120349841 ) , when asked about whether the government "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," 49.3% of NYC residents and 41% of New York State residents agreed with the claim. 30% of them were registered Republicans supported the claim and 38% of people who described themselves as "very conservative" also supported the claim. As did 47.9% of "Born Again" Evangelical Christians. It's not only people on the left who believe the government's inaction on Sept. 11th was more than mere incompetence. NewMax ( http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...31/102402.shtml ) even picked up the article (but tagged something to blame Clinton and Gore at the end of it under "editor's note)

A very good point, I never said I thought it was a missle or a commuter plane, I just said certain things sorrounding the Pentagon crash seemed - I don't know - not ot make sense.

The family of former FBI agent John P.O. Neil - who, after becoming frustrated with the pressure put on him to stop investigatig the terrorists and the Saudis, he resigned, became head of security at the WTC and was killed - would disagree with you.

They set up a website www.rememberjohn.com (which is up sometimes and down other times) that points out the things Bush didn't do before Sept.11th, and the things Clinton and Gore did do during their tenure.

I'm almost positive that Bush knew it was going to happen, but I don't think he set it up. As much as I disagree with him politically, I don't think he would purposely kill Americans.

When I believed Bush was behind 9/11, I thought he had the planes taken to a secret military base to have the passangers shot. It just seems too farfetched now.

Just because the administration didn't heed warnings, just because they acted ineptly, just because their response was delayed . . . none of those things means they were in any way complicit in these attacks. To me, it just shows that they are enormously incompetent and have their attention focused on their fantasy agenda rather than on hard reality.

Very possible, I can't claim to know exactly what the truth is, since I wasn't in the White House and I don't know what was going through their heads, but that definitely seems to be their pattern of action, like with the Weapons of Mass Destruction, where despite the amount of information saying there wasn't any, they believed there was anyway, or they said they believed it. That'd also explain why Ashcroft would say "I don't want to hear about it" instead of "That doesn't matter".

It is a known fact that this administration hears only what it wants to hear. Hence the WMD thing you refer to. That's what I meant by fantasy agenda. Don't confuse this administration with the facts.

Somebody knew what all of this meant though, an NPR Reporter, David Welna said this in a report soon after the attacks:

http://thememoryhole.org/tenet-911.mp3

"I spoke with Congressman Ike Skelton—a Democrat from Missouri and a member of the Armed Services Committee—who said that just recently the Director of the CIA warned that there could be an attack—an imminent attack—on the United States of this nature. So this is not entirely unexpected."

http://thememoryhole.org/tenet-911.htm

Oh, I believe they knew a whole lot. I mean, look at the title of that presidential briefing bulletin--the one about "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S." or whatever it said. They had loads of warnings, and they chose to ignore them. I'm not saying they're innocent on that score. They were told by the Clinton administration at the time of transition that bin Laden and al Qaeda were going to be their biggest threats, but they chose not to act on that information. They're guilty when it comes to all that. But I still don't think that means they actually had anything to do with 9/11. I'm convinced they could've done more to stop it from happening, without question. But I believe it was a sin of ommission, not commission.

So it's the difference between complicity and conciously failing to act?

Speaking of conciously failing to act what about NORAD not responding, considering that even though the FAA wouldn't give the "scramble" order, Cheney and the Secret Service could have, but didn't (Bush could've too, but since he was busy with his goat book...)

GS and anyone else who would like to know more about the mysterious Pentagon attack, tune in to the Nation Geographic channel, Tuesday at 9 PM.

Are they showing the same program the History Channel had on a few months ago, showing just exactly how the airplane left the mark it did?

I saw it a while ago, and weighed it with the Flash Animation - especially considering that the History Channel is . . . well the History channel, and the Flash Animation is just that.

Thanks for telling us, Greyfox, I might check it out. :)

Well, all I saw was the preview titled "What really happened at the Pentagon?" or something like that. I'm not familiar with what you're talking about on the DC.