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Title: Democrats Urge Torture Probe by Special Counsel


al001 - April 29, 2009 01:32 PM (GMT)
http://www.truthout.org/042909J

Democrats Urge Torture Probe by Special Counsel
Tuesday 28 April 2009

by: Larry Margasak | Visit article original @ The Associated Press

Washington - Congressional Democrats turned up the pressure on the Obama administration Tuesday to start a criminal investigation by a special counsel into harsh interrogations of terrorism suspects.

It would be a conflict of interest for President Barack Obama's Justice Department to investigate lawyers from the Bush administration, even though they no longer work for the government, Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee said.

In a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, the Democrats wrote, "It is impossible to determine at this stage, and before conclusion of the necessary investigation, whether additional conflicts of interest might exist or arise."

The letter said a special counsel's investigation would insulate the department from accusations that the investigation was politically inspired.

Most of the 16 signers were Democratic liberals. Seven committee Democrats did not sign the letter, nor did any of the 16 Republicans.

Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd said the letter will be reviewed, but he pointed out the department's Office of Professional Responsibility is investigating whether the memos are consistent with professional standards required of department lawyers.

"As with any issue, we will follow the facts where they lead," Boyd said. "As the attorney general has said, it would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department."

Obama has said it would be up to Holder to determine whether "those who formulated those legal decisions" should be prosecuted. The methods, described in the Bush-era memos, included slamming detainees against walls and subjecting them to simulated drowning known as waterboarding.

The president said he would not seek to punish CIA officers and others who carried out interrogations.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, also has proposed that independent investigators determine whether Bush administration officials ought to face charges.

Conservative Republican senators have characterized the Democratic effort as counterproductive and politically motivated at the least and, at worst, damaging to national security.

Levin recommended that the Justice Department select up to three people outside the department, such as retired federal judges, to recommend any charges or other actions against lawyers and others who developed the policies.

In addition to lawmakers, a coalition of liberal groups delivered petitions to Holder demanding that he name an independent counsel. The groups included the American Civil Liberties Union, MoveOn.org, and the Center or Constitutional Rights.

The ACLU obtained four of the Justice Department memos that provided the legal framework for the interrogation policies.

trueconservative - May 10, 2009 09:51 PM (GMT)
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Al_Gore_Support...showtopic=11144

Check this out as well! Browse our MANY TOPICS!

You see al001, these cross-references are a moving TOC(table of contents) this link comes full circle back to your Limbaugh-Cheney link.

Why is this done? Why to PROMOTE EDUCATED READING! :clap:

Many will graze/view other topics you and others have posted by using these links as well! :good:

al001 - May 11, 2009 04:25 AM (GMT)
You have a point TNBlue. Many of the articles are joining to give a better picture and this is very good.

We should post all that relate to another so the full story comes out. Only then can we make a sound judgement.

al001 - May 11, 2009 05:42 AM (GMT)
I delelted the original Post because I felt it may have been too hasrh. But I now fell I was not harsh enough.

True was correct in that some of the articles are coming together to connect the issues that the press puts out peace meal. But there is never saud to give the full story.

Gore is not in office and as hard as it is to accept we need to and we shoud get used to it. We should concentrate on the problems we face daily. We are still at war, the war has not ended it has just moved to this Country. Things are occuring all around you but they are in a scattered form so you don't recongize them. It is our duty to put the facts together and tell those who come to this board.

What value is recieved from a post talking about how sexy some guy is?

You are under attack by the wealthy in Government, by Congress, by your State, your City and the radical redneck Republicans. And those who simply don't like you.

We are still in a war and it is here on our own soil. I choose to stand and fight. Will you stand or choose to blindly follow the wealthy into a filthy pin to spend the rest of your life without the benefit of a legal system or else to wait for death when the population becomes over crowded.

Find the revelent news and post it, link it to others that relate and so on...

EDUCATE THE PUBLIC. IT'S THE ONLY CHANCE WE HAVE FOR A SANE WORLD AND COUNTY

:?:

al001 - May 11, 2009 05:47 AM (GMT)
True and Papa I felt this need to be posted.


Posted: May 10 2009, 03:30 PM

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_...EMPLATE=DEFAULT

Cheney backs Limbaugh over Powell on GOP future
May 10, 1:57 PM EDT

By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Dick Cheney made clear Sunday he'd rather follow firebrand broadcaster Rush Limbaugh than former Joint Chiefs chairman Colin Powell into political battle over the future of the Republican Party.

Even as Cheney embraced efforts to expand the party by ex-Govs. Jeb Bush of Florida and Mitt Romney of Massachusetts and the House's No. 2 Republican, Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor, the former vice president appeared to write his one-time colleague Powell out of the GOP.

Asked about recent verbal broadsides between Limbaugh and Powell, Cheney said, "If I had to choose in terms of being a Republican, I'd go with Rush Limbaugh. My take on it was Colin had already left the party. I didn't know he was still a Republican."

Powell, who was secretary of state under President George W. Bush and held the nation's top military post under President George H.W. Bush, endorsed Democrat Barack Obama for president last year. Nonetheless, since the election he has described himself as a Republican and a right-of-center conservative, though "not as right as others would like."

Cheney, citing Powell's backing of Obama over Republican nominee John McCain, said, "I assumed that that is some indication of his loyalty and his interests."

Cheney's remarks on CBS' "Face the Nation" were the latest step in his slow-motion estrangement from Powell since the two worked closely together to manage the Persian Gulf war in 1991 - Powell as the Army general who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Cheney as defense secretary for the elder Bush.

Under the younger Bush, Powell initially backed action against Iraq's Saddam Hussein and delivered a famous U.N. speech laying out the U.S. case. But Powell and Cheney increasingly parted ways over the Bush administration's policies on the war and terrorism, with Cheney usually prevailing. Powell left the administration after Bush's first term.

Wading into the debate over the GOP's future, Cheney called efforts by George W. Bush's brother Jeb, along with Cantor and Romney, as "a good thing to do," but set a limit on how far the party should go.

"The suggestion our Democratic friends always make is somehow if you Republicans were just more like Democrats, you'd win elections," Cheney said. "Well, I don't buy that. We win elections when we have good solid conservative principles to run upon."

Powell has argued the Republican Party needs to move toward the center and reach out to growing black, Hispanic and Asian communities, but instead has been shrinking because it hasn't changed as the country changed in the face of economic distress. "Americans are looking for more government in their life, not less," Powell said last week.

For months, Powell has urged the party to turn away from the acid-tongued Limbaugh. "I think what Rush does as an entertainer diminishes the party and intrudes or inserts into our public life a kind of nastiness that we would be better to do without," Powell said.

"Colin Powell is just another liberal," Limbaugh retorted. "What Colin Powell needs to do is close the loop and become a Democrat." Limbaugh said Powell is "just mad at me because I'm the one person in the country that had the guts to explain his endorsement of Obama. It was purely and solely based on race." Both Powell and Obama are black.

On other topics on the CBS interview, Cheney:

-said transferring suspected terrorists from the military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to the United States would be a bad idea that would enlarge their legal rights. Obama's national security adviser, retired Marine Gen. James Jones, told ABC's "This Week" the White House isn't going to do that if it would make Americans less safe.

-reiterated his belief the U.S. has become more vulnerable to a potential terrorist attack since the Obama administration renounced harsh interrogation tactics such as waterboarding, which simulates drowning, that Cheney said provided good intelligence. Jones said he didn't believe the nation was at greater risk and that even some in the Bush administration disagreed with Cheney on that score.

-renewed his call for the administration to release two CIA memos he said list successes derived from those interrogations, including "attack planning that was under way and how it was stopped." The Obama administration is reviewing Cheney's request. Obama has said the memos are not so clear-cut and do not address whether the information could have been obtained without such methods.

-said he has been speaking out about the Obama administration although George W. Bush remains silent, because if he didn't, "then the critics have free run, and there isn't anybody there on the other side to tell the truth."



trueconservative Posted: May 10 2009, 03:44 PM

Following the likes of Limbaugh & Cheney is sure to SINK the Republican Party!

Cantor, Romney, and Jebby Boy might as well GIVE UP! Jebby's BROTHER, Cheney & Rove with their RADIO SS headed by Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck have pounded the GOP BOAT so FULL OF HOLES that LISTENING WON'T WORK NOW!!!

For Beck I have THIS, I REGISTERED INDEPENDENT INSTEAD OF GOP TO VOTE OBAMA!

PAPA REGISTERED INDEPENDENT AND STILL VOTED DEMOCRATIC!

My DEDUCTION IS THIS GOP INDEPENDENTS DO NOT VOTE GOP BUT DEMOCRATIC INDEPENDENTS STILL VOTE THE TICKET!

Powell, Specter, and OTHERS are ROWING THE LIFEBOATS OURWAY!

THE BIG TENT OF REAGAN HAS FALLEN! NEOCON RADIO RUNS THE GAS CHAMBER OF WHAT IS LEFT OF THE POLITICAL SUICIDE REPUBLICANS!!!

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Al_Gore_Support...showtopic=11143

This link leads to a thread with more links that 'ironically' end up back at this thread link as well! That is a 'round robin' of topics!

This post has been edited by trueconservative on May 10 2009, 03:47 PM




The Paraclete Posted: May 10 2009, 05:12 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edZV_ScBaSM

HOW ABOUT THAT ERRODING GOP BASE?

al001 - May 11, 2009 06:04 AM (GMT)
Here is the original article. I had deleted it but decided to re post it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huff...i_b_194242.html

Why Are Bankers Still Being Treated As Beltway Royalty?

By Arianna Huffington, Tribune Media Services,
Galloway, Joe
Posted 05/08/2009 at 8:58 pm EST

During his most recent press conference, President Obama said that he's been "sobered by the fact that change in Washington comes slow" and "humbled by the fact that the presidency is extraordinarily powerful, but we are just part of a much broader tapestry of American life and there are a lot of different power centers."

Well, one of those different power centers -- the entrenched special interests that continue to call so many shots on Capitol Hill -- is the main reason change in D.C. comes so slow.

This, of course, will not come as news to anyone who has paid even the briefest attention to Washington over the last 30 years. Indeed, I've been writing about it for over a decade.

But despite all that I know about the reform-killing power unleashed by the nexus of lobbying, campaign cash and legislation, I have been flabbergasted by the amount of behind-the-scenes influence recently being wielded by the banking lobby.

In the past few weeks, the bankers and their lobbyists -- who you might have reasonably thought would be the political equivalent of lepers in the halls of power these days -- have kneecapped substantive bankruptcy reform in the Senate, helped pull the plug on a government-brokered deal with Chrysler, and tried feverishly to throw up a roadblock in the way of credit-card reform in the House.

You heard me right. America's bankers -- those wonderful folks who brought us the economic meltdown -- are still being treated as Beltway royalty by those in Congress.

According to Sen. Dick Durbin, the banks "are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place."

When it comes to reforming our financial system, we are truly through the looking glass. I mean, since when did it become "to the vanquished go the spoils"? How do the same banks that have repeatedly come to Washington over the last eight months with their hats in their hands, asking for billions to rescue them from their catastrophic mistakes, somehow still "own the place"?

But the banks continue to be rewarded for their many failures.

Let's start with bankruptcy reform. The banks scored a lopsided victory when the Senate rejected an amendment that would have allowed homeowners facing foreclosure to renegotiate their mortgages under the guidance of a bankruptcy judge. The measure would have helped 1.7 million homeowners keep their houses, and preserved an additional $300 billion in home equity.

Given the tidal wave of foreclosures that have so destabilized our economy, this seems like a no-brainer piece of legislation. There were over 800,000 foreclosures in the first three months of 2009 -- more than 341,000 in March alone.

But the banking lobbyists went after it with guns a-blazing -- even after Durbin and the measure's other backers seriously diluted the bill. These concessions did nothing to sway the Mortgage Bankers Association (whose members' subprime schemes have helped bring us to the point of collapse), the Financial Services Roundtable and the American Bankers Association, among other hired guns.

And their aim was true -- and deadly. Heading into the vote, those pushing for reform hoped to gather the 60 supporters needed to bring the cramdown amendment to a final vote. Instead, Durbin struggled to find 45 senators willing to side with consumers. The final tally: Bankers 51, Consumers 45.

Twelve Democrats sided with the banks -- Max Baucus, Michael Bennet, Robert Byrd, Tom Carper, Byron Dorgan, Tim Johnson, Mary Landrieu, Blanche Lincoln, Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor, Arlen Specter and Jon Tester -- as did every Republican who voted.

As the Huffington Post's Ryan Grim reported, some of the key Democrats who voted against the measure have been on the receiving end of major banking-industry campaign contributions:

The banking and real estate industry have funneled roughly $2 million into Landrieu's campaign coffers over her 12-year career, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics. The financial sector is Nelson's biggest backer; he's taken $1.4 million from banks and real estate interests. Tester has fielded roughly half a million in his two years in office. Lincoln has taken $1.3 million from banking and real estate interests.

In the run-up to the vote, Durbin called it a "test": "Who is going to win this debate?" he asked. "The mortgage bankers and the American Bankers Association or the consumers across America?"

We just got our answer.

The shocking swagger of those in the financial sector was also evident in the negotiations that resulted in the announcement that Chrysler would file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

For much of the back-and-forth between Chrysler, its lenders and the Treasury Department, those lenders (comprised of banks, including Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and JP Morgan -- all recipients of bailout money -- and private equity firms) were playing hardball. They repeatedly rejected attempts by Treasury to get them to lower the amount of Chrysler's debt.

The car company owes its creditors $6.9 billion. Treasury proposed that the banks and private equity firms accept 15 percent of what they are owed. The creditors scoffed at that and suggested they'd settle for getting 65 percent of what they are owed (around $4.5 billion), plus a 40 percent stake in Chrysler and a seat on the company's board.

Picture this for a moment. On one side you have the Treasury, which has helped funnel tens of billions of dollars to these banks, making what it considers an equitable proposal. On the other side, you have the bankers, the recipients of that government largess, showing their gratitude by scoffing at Treasury's proposal and demanding a much, much better deal. Clearly, Goldman has gotten way too used to sweetheart deals like the 100-cents-on-the-dollar payout it received as part of the AIG bailout.

Treasury eventually upped the proposal to $1.5 billion (22 percent of what the creditors were owed) and a 5 percent equity stake in the carmaker. Again the bankers scoffed, before finally, at the 11th hour, agreeing to accept $2 billion (around 29 percent) and a small equity stake.

A Treasury official took a victory lap, calling the deal "an exceptional accomplishment in line with the president's firm commitment that all stakeholders sacrifice to make this deal succeed."

Then the 12th hour arrived and the hedge-fund managers, who hold around 30 percent of the Chrysler debt, decided they didn't want to sacrifice that much after all and refused to sign off on the deal -- even after the offer was sweetened with an additional $250 million. At least the hedge funds had not improved their balance sheets with billions in taxpayer dollars and government loan guarantees before scuttling the deal.

As for credit-card reform, the House's resounding 357-70 passage of Carolyn Maloney's Credit Card Holders' Bill of Rights would seem like a rare defeat for the banking lobbyists, who furiously opposed it. But a number of elements of the legislation demonstrate that even when the bankers lose, they still win. For instance, despite the desperate urgency of the situation, all but one of the consumer-friendly provisions of the bill won't take effect for a year. And the bill doesn't contain any cap on credit-card interest rates -- an amendment to cap rates at 18 percent never got any traction. And, of course, the bankers will get another crack at derailing credit-card reform when the Senate takes up its version of the bill, sponsored by Chris Dodd, later this month.

So no matter how badly the banking industry fails and how much its failures cost us, it continues to be Washington's 800-pound gorilla -- and the greatest risk to Barack Obama's presidency.

At his press conference, Obama bemoaned the fact that he "can't just press a button and suddenly have the bankers do exactly what I want."

It's too bad the same can't be said for the bankers, who keep pressing Congress' buttons, and getting pretty much what they want.

(Arianna Huffington's e-mail address is arianna@huffingtonpost.com.)




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